Unusual and weird situation resulting in ejection

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by representing

I f*cked up because I didn't realize that it was the scorekeeper doing that before I T'ed him up, but I did take care of it correctly.

Your continued and incorrect assertion in the face of near-universal instruction to the contrary is one reason that many esteemed posters regard you as a know-it-all and unteachable.

[just another ref]

Let me take a stab at this one. You would not have T'd the guy had you known he was table crew and not AC. Okay, fine, we all buy that. But he was on the court to check on the player, momentarily affiliated with that team if you will. This would make the technical foul acceptable to some.


But forget about all that. Suppose the guy who made the snide remarks was simply an innocent bystander, a coach of some other team scouting, someone who undeniably was not associated with either team, but you didn't know all that and T'd him anyway. This is no different than if you called a T on A1 for saying "The ref sucks," and later learned that in fact B1 was the one who said it.

This is a bad mistake, sure, but a mistake is all it is. It is not a correctable error. These were not unmerited free throws. When a technical is called, free throws are merited.

Swallow it. Remember it and learn to be not so quick on the trigger if you're not sure of all the facts, and move on.

[bradfordwilkins]

By the way - has anyone else ever teched someone for snickering during an explanation to a head coach? I certainly haven't seen or done it...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by representing

1) I've told you (and others) that I have admitted it was my fault.

2) I got on this forum to learn more, but it seems that no matter what message boards I go to, there will always be guys like you just waiting to prey on the next "noobie" official to convince him/her to hang up the whistle. I will never hang up my whistle. I want to be a damn good official, so I come to you guys to help me out.

3) I do know that, at least in Pennsylvania, this would have been done the same way by many officials.

1) Nope. You keep trying to insist that the rules will allow you to rescind those technical foul free throws. You absolutely refuse to admit that you screwed that up.

2) Guys like me? Go back and read every post in this thread and see if you can find a "guy like you". Nobody here agreed with the way you handled the situation. Nobody! The only one that you can find to agree with you is some mystical, un-named rules interpreter. And btw, I also went back and reviewed my posts to you and I can't see anywhere that I advocated that you hang up your whistle. I did state that you have one helluva lot to learn. I'll stand by that statement.

3) Boolsh!t.

[Adam]

Representing, can you please answer the following question?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

A1 goes up for a shot in the lane, and B1 goes up to defend. B1 blocks it cleanly, knocking it out of bounds. C calls a phantom foul. B coach goes ballistic, so the official Ts the coach.

After shooting the shooting all the shots, the C then approaches the L and asks him what he saw. "It was clean, no contact at all."

The C then decides to correct his error (time frame still applies) and retract the original shooting foul. He wipes away the points because they were unmerited.

Do you think he has rules backing for this?

The concept is similar, as a foul cannot legally be called without contact.

BTW, I would be willing to bet a game check that you would get a different answer from the NFHS.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Representing, can you please answer the following question?


The concept is similar, as a foul cannot legally be called without contact.

BTW, I would be willing to bet a game check that you would get a different answer from the NFHS.

Ok Snaqs, point well taken.

And no, he doesn't have any backing on this by the rules as it doesn't fall under any of the 5 correctable errors.

[representing]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

Someone suggested a warning. Try that, it is useful.
Consider calling a blocking foul. Then call it again. The player will soon be departing.

This is how I will handle this from now on. First time, I will wait until next dead ball to call the player over and warn him (unless you can consider this a violation to stop the play dead). If he continues, I will call a blocking charge the next two times. If he does it once more after that then I will T him up.

What do you guys think? I would hate for a kid to foul out when theoretically he would probably be fouling out and not fouling period (flopping without contact). So I was thinking, a "3 strikes and you're out" moment... Warn and two chances to clean it up with just a simple foul.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by representing

This is how I will handle this from now on. First time, I will wait until next dead ball to call the player over and warn him (unless you can consider this a violation to stop the play dead). If he continues, I will call a blocking charge the next two times. If he does it once more after that then I will T him up.

What do you guys think? I would hate for a kid to foul out when theoretically he would probably be fouling out and not fouling period (flopping without contact). So I was thinking, a "3 strikes and you're out" moment... Warn and two chances to clean it up with just a simple foul.

The phrase "making up your own rules" comes to mind..........again.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by representing

This is how I will handle this from now on. First time, I will wait until next dead ball to call the player over and warn him (unless you can consider this a violation to stop the play dead). If he continues, I will call a blocking charge the next two times. If he does it once more after that then I will T him up.

What do you guys think? I would hate for a kid to foul out when theoretically he would probably be fouling out and not fouling period (flopping without contact). So I was thinking, a "3 strikes and you're out" moment... Warn and two chances to clean it up with just a simple foul.

Here's my recommendation. If you see any contact, I'd be willing to accept a blocking foul on this.
But I prefer a warning.

Just last week, I had a kid pull this. I was C, and as we were heading the other way I go this attention and told him not to do it again. He pretended he didn't know what I was talking about, but he didn't do it again.

If, after one warning, he does it again, ring him up. It'll stop.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by representing

This is how I will handle this from now on. First time, I will wait until next dead ball to call the player over and warn him (unless you can consider this a violation to stop the play dead). If he continues, I will call a blocking charge the next two times. If he does it once more after that then I will T him up.

What do you guys think? I would hate for a kid to foul out when theoretically he would probably be fouling out and not fouling period (flopping without contact). So I was thinking, a "3 strikes and you're out" moment... Warn and two chances to clean it up with just a simple foul.

I would normally ignore these errant pronouncements save for the fact that you are 'representing' every official who walks on a court. I strongly suggest you follow up on your stated desire to hang up your whistle, and that you do so immediately. How can you suggest such a faulty course of action that has absolutely no basis in any rules set extant. The proper treatment for flopping is clearly delineated in the citations presented throughout this thread. You need to learn how to be more detached in the execution of you officiating responsibilities. Leave your emotional baggage in the locker room and refrain from bringing your sh!t into OUR game.

[representing]

Originally Posted by justacoach

I would normally ignore these errant pronouncements save for the fact that you are 'representing' every official who walks on a court. I strongly suggest you follow up on your stated desire to hang up your whistle, and that you do so immediately. How can you suggest such a faulty course of action that has absolutely no basis in any rules set extant. The proper treatment for flopping is clearly delineated in the citations presented throughout this thread. You need to learn how to be more detached in the execution of you officiating responsibilities. Leave your emotional baggage in the locker room and refrain from bringing your sh!t into OUR game.

You're just a coach, remember that

[Adam]

Originally Posted by justacoach

I would normally ignore these errant pronouncements save for the fact that you are 'representing' every official who walks on a court. I strongly suggest you follow up on your stated desire to hang up your whistle, and that you do so immediately. How can you suggest such a faulty course of action that has absolutely no basis in any rules set extant. The proper treatment for flopping is clearly delineated in the citations presented throughout this thread. You need to learn how to be more detached in the execution of you officiating responsibilities. Leave your emotional baggage in the locker room and refrain from bringing your sh!t into OUR game.

Let me just say this, in some places, a block on this place is an acceptable way to put a stop to it. Personally, if I were to do it that way, I'd accompany it with a warning to the player letting him know why I called it. Next one is a T.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Let me just say this, in some places, a block on this place is an acceptable way to put a stop to it.

The rulebook ain't one of them.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The rulebook ain't one of them.

True, but the rule book doesn't advocate using advantage to determine palming or three seconds; nor does it advocate taking 15 seconds to get to 10 on free throw.

There are other regional practices not explicitly allowed by rule, either.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

True, but the rule book doesn't advocate using advantage to determine palming or three seconds; nor does it advocate taking 15 seconds to get to 10 on free throw.

Good point, but all these thing involve varying degrees of ignoring things that happened. Calling something that didn't happen, imo, is considerably more serious.