Questioning my T

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I don't really have a problem with this, but then again I think I'm averaging a little over one T a game in high school games this season. I'm trying to take the nice approach and ask the coach to let the situation go. Of course, I don't mind having the perception of an official who will call a T...

If it is true that you are averaging more than 1 T per game in HS, you must be reffing in "The League from Hell."

I average about 2 a season. One for each gender.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

I average about 2 a season. One for each gender.

If you worked in Portland, you'd have to average 4 per season to average one for each gender.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[BBall_Junkie]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

BBall_Junkie,
All true points. I am guessing that you are NOT talking about high school games that are required to be downloaded and reviewed. I think that this would be a good idea for HS referees for at least one or two games every year.

I would tell you that the TYPICAL high school referee does NOT review tapes of every game (many seldom, if ever, do).

The chief point in my post was to indicate that BOTH referees AND coaches have a difficult job that we should ALL respect.

No, I was mostly talking about college games (I am not trying to stir the pot) but I don't know any high school coaches that make "millions of dollars" therefore I interpreted your comments to be aimed at the college game.

If we keep it apples to apples I know of many JV level coaches that spend as much time prepping for a game that JV officials do for the same game....

Outside of that, point taken.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

I would tell you that the TYPICAL high school referee does NOT review tapes of every game (many seldom, if ever, do).

I'd love to do this more. But it's really difficult to get game tapes 'round these parts.

[constable]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

If it is true that you are averaging more than 1 T per game in HS, you must be reffing in "The League from Hell."

I average about 2 a season. One for each gender.

Hell I was doing a senior V game the other week and we had 4 in that game.

one kid asked me if I was ****ing serious after I called a foul on him, then my partner called a double T for chirping and pushing during a dead ball, then some one mouthed off to him in the 4th.

2 T's a year sounds like a cake walk!

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by constable

2 T's a year sounds like a cake walk!

It is! And I may be exaggerating that.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Wow, I really hope that I never have to be calling Ts almost as frequently as timeouts during a game to keep a game under control.

Originally Posted by Scratch85

If it is true that you are averaging more than 1 T per game in HS, you must be reffing in "The League from Hell."

I average about 2 a season. One for each gender.

I have been to Vegas, Washington DC, Mississippi and back to Vegas. 2 Ts a season just isn't feasible.

Most of the Ts I call are related to unsporting acts - a pet peeve of mine in high school games. I'm always amazed at the fact that the same problem doesn't exist as much in college games where coaches have more at stake.

[constable]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

It is! And I may be exaggerating that.

good for you. I'm not overly T happy. I guess there is just more unsporting behaviour here.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

From reading your responses, I see somebody who today is where I was not that long ago. I realize that to some degree you're venting your general frustrations at some coaches and their "feedback". But I also see signs of having the wrong attitude and being the victim of your own lack of skills.

If you are going to make this thing work for you, you have got to do a few things well that you don't seem to be doing very well right now. You've got to be able to communicate effectively with everybody involved: partners, players, coaches, table crew, everybody. That especially means engaging (not necessarily confronting) coaches when there is an issue, not running away from them. You've got to be able to call the obvious and what matters, control the game, and do it all consistently. You're going to have to be around a while, so people have time to learn to trust you. And you've got to exude a positive attitude and show due respect toward the game and each of the participants.

You're off to a good start, and you've made some important discoveries, including that most coaches don't know the rules very well. So, now how do you take what you have learned and what you can now do and use your knowledge and skills to bridge that gap? Because the game is about them, not about us. We're just the facilitators.

I tried my best to apply this last night in my girls JV game. I was R, so in my conference I made a point to have a positive, upbeat attitude with the coaches and let them know we'd appreciate communication with them.

Did it do any good? Not really.

End of 1st quarter, I'm T as the clock is expiring. B1 has the ball and jumps into A1, who jumps vertically to block the shot. There is a good amount of contact, but I have nothing, as B1 jumped into A1's vertical space.

Well, B coach isn't please with my call. Normally, I would ignore him and talk to my partner during the break between quarters, but, trying to take your (and others' advice), I go over to talk to him. I'm calm, I'm pleasant, I explain to him that his player jumped INTO the other player, therefore there's no foul even though there was contact.

He laughs at me (nothing outrageous, more of a sarcastic chuckle), rolls his eyes, and says "whatever." He is ice cold to me the rest of the game.

Yes, this was just one game, and it's not going to keep me from working on my communication, but I'm honestly convinced at this point it is less me and more the coaches. They don't want to be reasoned with.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by fiasco

...
Well, B coach isn't please with my call. Normally, I would ignore him and talk to my partner during the break between quarters, but, trying to take your (and others' advice), I go over to talk to him. I'm calm, I'm pleasant, I explain to him that his player jumped INTO the other player, therefore there's no foul even though there was contact.

...

No need to go over to the coach on a situation like this. If you so happened to be near him and he comments, then yes, a quick and short reply may be appropriate. But don't go out your way to explain, especially a play as basic as the one in question.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

No need to go over to the coach on a situation like this. If you so happened to be near him and he comments, then yes, a quick and short reply may be appropriate. But don't go out your way to explain, especially a play as basic as the one in question.

I was T on the play next to the benches. He was asking why it was not a foul.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I was T on the play next to the benches. He was asking why it was not a foul.

Defense was straight up, coach. That's all I would say and move on.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Yes, this was just one game, and it's not going to keep me from working on my communication, but I'm honestly convinced at this point it is less me and more the coaches. They don't want to be reasoned with.

Fiasco,
I don't reason with my dogs and I don't reason with coaches. I don't plead, I don't cajole, I don't care if they "get it". It is them.When my dogs pee in the house its not me being a bad owner, its them being coaches.. I'm glad I'm learned this part of my game. The communication skills I have with my dogs, I mean the coaches, make my games go nicely.

I'm polite,professional, and have a good attitude.

They ask a legimate question, I started out giving them stock replys. Billy Mac has several cut and pastes in regards to these stock replys.

Here's an Example.

Coach: Thats a foul. There was contact, or pushing or whatever.
Me: Coach all contact is not a foul.

I had about 3 or 4 of these stock answers. I could memorize all of them and one of the four would usually apply to the given situation. That worked till I was ready to freelance.

Coach chirping/reffing. Stock answer " I'll ref. You coach"

I lived and breathe the 3 P's.

If it's personal, profane, or persistent = one big FAT T..

Though I usually don't let the persistent go. I address it and it ends voluntarily or I end it. LAst night Asst Coach barking loud in the first MINUTE, first chance I got I had a quick little chat with Head Coach. Problem solved.

Keep it simple. And remember it is them ,but we still need to work with them,

even if we have to rub their noses in their pee sometimes. Just kidding but it sounded funny to me.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

Fiasco,
I don't reason with my dogs and I don't reason with coaches. I don't plead, I don't cajole, I don't care if they "get it". It is them.When my dogs pee in the house its not me being a bad owner, its them being coaches.. I'm glad I'm learned this part of my game. The communication skills I have with my dogs, I mean the coaches, make my games go nicely.

This may be my favorite post ever.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I tried my best to apply this last night in my girls JV game. I was R, so in my conference I made a point to have a positive, upbeat attitude with the coaches and let them know we'd appreciate communication with them.

Did it do any good? Not really.

End of 1st quarter, I'm T as the clock is expiring. B1 has the ball and jumps into A1, who jumps vertically to block the shot. There is a good amount of contact, but I have nothing, as B1 jumped into A1's vertical space.

Well, B coach isn't please with my call. Normally, I would ignore him and talk to my partner during the break between quarters, but, trying to take your (and others' advice), I go over to talk to him. I'm calm, I'm pleasant, I explain to him that his player jumped INTO the other player, therefore there's no foul even though there was contact.

He laughs at me (nothing outrageous, more of a sarcastic chuckle), rolls his eyes, and says "whatever." He is ice cold to me the rest of the game.

Yes, this was just one game, and it's not going to keep me from working on my communication, but I'm honestly convinced at this point it is less me and more the coaches. They don't want to be reasoned with.

In a later post you say you answered a question. But here you state he disagreed. I made a call Monday night as L. Offensive player in post pushed defender and received an entry pass for an easy bucket. Except for the whistle. Coach said something like "THAT is you first call?" Of course it wasn't. And if he had asked what was the foul I would have answered him. It would not have served any purpose to engage him. Did not have any problems with him the balance of the game. But it sounds like you went over to offer free advice. Comments are either ignored or whistled if there has been ABS. It does you no good to go looking for the coach to explain something.