Questioning my T

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

From reading your responses, I see somebody who today is where I was not that long ago. I realize that to some degree you're venting your general frustrations at some coaches and their "feedback". But I also see signs of having the wrong attitude and being the victim of your own lack of skills.

If you are going to make this thing work for you, you have got to do a few things well that you don't seem to be doing very well right now. You've got to be able to communicate effectively with everybody involved: partners, players, coaches, table crew, everybody. That especially means engaging (not necessarily confronting) coaches when there is an issue, not running away from them. You've got to be able to call the obvious and what matters, control the game, and do it all consistently. You're going to have to be around a while, so people have time to learn to trust you. And you've got to exude a positive attitude and show due respect toward the game and each of the participants.

You're off to a good start, and you've made some important discoveries, including that most coaches don't know the rules very well. So, now how do you take what you have learned and what you can now do and use your knowledge and skills to bridge that gap? Because the game is about them, not about us. We're just the facilitators.

I tried my best to apply this last night in my girls JV game. I was R, so in my conference I made a point to have a positive, upbeat attitude with the coaches and let them know we'd appreciate communication with them.

Did it do any good? Not really.

End of 1st quarter, I'm T as the clock is expiring. B1 has the ball and jumps into A1, who jumps vertically to block the shot. There is a good amount of contact, but I have nothing, as B1 jumped into A1's vertical space.

Well, B coach isn't please with my call. Normally, I would ignore him and talk to my partner during the break between quarters, but, trying to take your (and others' advice), I go over to talk to him. I'm calm, I'm pleasant, I explain to him that his player jumped INTO the other player, therefore there's no foul even though there was contact.

He laughs at me (nothing outrageous, more of a sarcastic chuckle), rolls his eyes, and says "whatever." He is ice cold to me the rest of the game.

Yes, this was just one game, and it's not going to keep me from working on my communication, but I'm honestly convinced at this point it is less me and more the coaches. They don't want to be reasoned with.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by fiasco

...
Well, B coach isn't please with my call. Normally, I would ignore him and talk to my partner during the break between quarters, but, trying to take your (and others' advice), I go over to talk to him. I'm calm, I'm pleasant, I explain to him that his player jumped INTO the other player, therefore there's no foul even though there was contact.

...

No need to go over to the coach on a situation like this. If you so happened to be near him and he comments, then yes, a quick and short reply may be appropriate. But don't go out your way to explain, especially a play as basic as the one in question.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

No need to go over to the coach on a situation like this. If you so happened to be near him and he comments, then yes, a quick and short reply may be appropriate. But don't go out your way to explain, especially a play as basic as the one in question.

I was T on the play next to the benches. He was asking why it was not a foul.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I was T on the play next to the benches. He was asking why it was not a foul.

Defense was straight up, coach. That's all I would say and move on.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Yes, this was just one game, and it's not going to keep me from working on my communication, but I'm honestly convinced at this point it is less me and more the coaches. They don't want to be reasoned with.

Fiasco,
I don't reason with my dogs and I don't reason with coaches. I don't plead, I don't cajole, I don't care if they "get it". It is them.When my dogs pee in the house its not me being a bad owner, its them being coaches.. I'm glad I'm learned this part of my game. The communication skills I have with my dogs, I mean the coaches, make my games go nicely.

I'm polite,professional, and have a good attitude.

They ask a legimate question, I started out giving them stock replys. Billy Mac has several cut and pastes in regards to these stock replys.

Here's an Example.

Coach: Thats a foul. There was contact, or pushing or whatever.
Me: Coach all contact is not a foul.

I had about 3 or 4 of these stock answers. I could memorize all of them and one of the four would usually apply to the given situation. That worked till I was ready to freelance.

Coach chirping/reffing. Stock answer " I'll ref. You coach"

I lived and breathe the 3 P's.

If it's personal, profane, or persistent = one big FAT T..

Though I usually don't let the persistent go. I address it and it ends voluntarily or I end it. LAst night Asst Coach barking loud in the first MINUTE, first chance I got I had a quick little chat with Head Coach. Problem solved.

Keep it simple. And remember it is them ,but we still need to work with them,

even if we have to rub their noses in their pee sometimes. Just kidding but it sounded funny to me.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

Fiasco,
I don't reason with my dogs and I don't reason with coaches. I don't plead, I don't cajole, I don't care if they "get it". It is them.When my dogs pee in the house its not me being a bad owner, its them being coaches.. I'm glad I'm learned this part of my game. The communication skills I have with my dogs, I mean the coaches, make my games go nicely.

This may be my favorite post ever.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I tried my best to apply this last night in my girls JV game. I was R, so in my conference I made a point to have a positive, upbeat attitude with the coaches and let them know we'd appreciate communication with them.

Did it do any good? Not really.

End of 1st quarter, I'm T as the clock is expiring. B1 has the ball and jumps into A1, who jumps vertically to block the shot. There is a good amount of contact, but I have nothing, as B1 jumped into A1's vertical space.

Well, B coach isn't please with my call. Normally, I would ignore him and talk to my partner during the break between quarters, but, trying to take your (and others' advice), I go over to talk to him. I'm calm, I'm pleasant, I explain to him that his player jumped INTO the other player, therefore there's no foul even though there was contact.

He laughs at me (nothing outrageous, more of a sarcastic chuckle), rolls his eyes, and says "whatever." He is ice cold to me the rest of the game.

Yes, this was just one game, and it's not going to keep me from working on my communication, but I'm honestly convinced at this point it is less me and more the coaches. They don't want to be reasoned with.

In a later post you say you answered a question. But here you state he disagreed. I made a call Monday night as L. Offensive player in post pushed defender and received an entry pass for an easy bucket. Except for the whistle. Coach said something like "THAT is you first call?" Of course it wasn't. And if he had asked what was the foul I would have answered him. It would not have served any purpose to engage him. Did not have any problems with him the balance of the game. But it sounds like you went over to offer free advice. Comments are either ignored or whistled if there has been ABS. It does you no good to go looking for the coach to explain something.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

In a later post you say you answered a question. But here you state he disagreed. I made a call Monday night as L. Offensive player in post pushed defender and received an entry pass for an easy bucket. Except for the whistle. Coach said something like "THAT is you first call?" Of course it wasn't. And if he had asked what was the foul I would have answered him. It would not have served any purpose to engage him. Did not have any problems with him the balance of the game. But it sounds like you went over to offer free advice. Comments are either ignored or whistled if there has been ABS. It does you no good to go looking for the coach to explain something.

I didn't go looking.

He didn't like my call, and so he asked me about it.

Why is this so hard to understand?

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I didn't go looking.

He didn't like my call, and so he asked me about it.

Why is this so hard to understand?

You did not state he asked a question till a later post. Maybe the 'communication' issue is not just with coaches. Just sayin'.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

You did not state he asked a question till a later post. Maybe the 'communication' issue is not just with coaches. Just sayin'.

Clarification is part of communication. Maybe you need to work on reading comprehension before you criticize my communication skills. I had already stated that the coach asked a question before your diatribe.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Clarification is part of communication. Maybe you need to work on reading comprehension before you criticize my communication skills. I had already stated that the coach asked a question before your diatribe.

You said, "Well, B coach isn't please with my call. Normally, I would ignore him and talk to my partner during the break between quarters, but, trying to take your (and others' advice), I go over to talk to him. I'm calm, I'm pleasant, I explain to him that his player jumped INTO the other player, therefore there's no foul even though there was contact."

What post was it where you said he asked a question?

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by tomegun

You said, "Well, B coach isn't please with my call. Normally, I would ignore him and talk to my partner during the break between quarters, but, trying to take your (and others' advice), I go over to talk to him. I'm calm, I'm pleasant, I explain to him that his player jumped INTO the other player, therefore there's no foul even though there was contact."

What post was it where you said he asked a question?

Given the length of this thread, it is apparent that any response that suggests he might want to change things up is met with resistance. People can get a lot of good advice on this site. If they want it.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by tomegun

You said, "Well, B coach isn't please with my call. Normally, I would ignore him and talk to my partner during the break between quarters, but, trying to take your (and others' advice), I go over to talk to him. I'm calm, I'm pleasant, I explain to him that his player jumped INTO the other player, therefore there's no foul even though there was contact."

What post was it where you said he asked a question?

You're a big boy. I'm sure if you look hard enough you can find it.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I didn't go looking.

He didn't like my call, and so he asked me about it.

Why is this so hard to understand?

It's called a rhetorical question. Stop defending the coach.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by fiasco

...
End of 1st quarter, I'm T as the clock is expiring. B1 has the ball and jumps into A1, who jumps vertically to block the shot. There is a good amount of contact, but I have nothing, as B1 jumped into A1's vertical space.

Well, B coach isn't please with my call. Normally, I would ignore him and talk to my partner during the break between quarters, but, trying to take your (and others' advice), I go over to talk to him. I'm calm, I'm pleasant, I explain to him that his player jumped INTO the other player, therefore there's no foul even though there was contact.

...

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

No need to go over to the coach on a situation like this. If you so happened to be near him and he comments, then yes, a quick and short reply may be appropriate. But don't go out your way to explain, especially a play as basic as the one in question.

Originally Posted by fiasco

I was T on the play next to the benches. He was asking why it was not a foul.

After the quarter is over you are no longer the Trail next to the his bench, you should now be somewhere along the division line waiting for the 2nd quarter to start. In your own words you say "I go over to talk to him". That's what my answer to you addresses.