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4.25.1 specifically says "opponents have their HANDS so firmly" (emphasis added), ie both hands ie 4 hands on the ball |
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I see a lot of athletic plays where I live and officiate. I have seen players get their shot "capped" and still get their shot away from all kinds of crazy angles AND make the basket. The case play you referenced earlier in the thread did not address plays in which an airborne shooter is actually able get his shot off after initially getting it "capped". BTW, in your quoted play above my instincts would be to count the basket. Now, if there is a rule/case/interp from NCAA and/or NFHS that says my instinct is wrong then I will adjust accordingly. Oh yeah, I forgot: In honor of our more kinder, gentler forum.
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A-hole formerly known as BNR Last edited by Raymond; Tue Jul 07, 2009 at 04:26pm. |
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Regardless. The premesis of "just an other ref" is not correct since if an offensive player was standing on the ground about to shoot and a defender puts a hand on the ball, not held ball according to 4.25.
Perhaps I mis read the post of " just another ref". Will go revisit Last edited by ILMalti; Tue Jul 07, 2009 at 04:37pm. |
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BNR,
Don't forget that I used to live and officiate in the DC area as well. I still think that you are failing to properly reward the athleticism of the defender for getting his hand on the ball without fouling and preventing the offensive player from releasing the ball when he desired. He has met the requirement of the rule for a held ball at that point. Anything else that happens afterwards doesn't matter. The ball is dead at that moment and you should sound the whistle immediately as it says in the NFHS case book. If you don't do this, then you are presenting the offensive player with an extra advantage to which he is not entitled by rule. You are tipping the carefully crafted balance between offense and defense that has been established by the rules writers. That negatively impacts the game. |
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What?? You think players must have both hands on the ball to have a held ball?? Hands = plural = more than one hand Two opponents @ one hand each = two hands = possible held ball
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I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove |
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The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball. The try ends when it is certain the throw is unsuccessful.
A mid-air pump fake does not habitually precede the release of the ball. Therefore the pull back and subsequent release is another try. When the first try was not released, it became certain that it was unsuccessful. The defender prevented the release. Held Ball
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I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove |
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If a player is on the GROUND and is about to try and the opponet places a hand on the ball preventing the try, this is NOT a held ball, |
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Oh really? Might want to rethink that one. Collectively, each having either one or two hands on the ball satisfies the clause "opponents have their hands so firmly". If two players have a hold of the ball such that it would take excessive force to free it...it is a jump ball. Forget about how many hands are on the ball....two hands (one from each) is adequate. It just happens that one hand on the ball is rarely enough for a player to retain their hold on the ball but it can be done.
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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Last edited by ILMalti; Tue Jul 07, 2009 at 05:52pm. |
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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