Angry Coach at Halftime

[just another ref]

As far as the geographical limits of the officials jurisdiction:

2-2-1: The officials shall make decisions for infractions of the rules committed within or outside the boundary lines.


That pretty much covers everywhere, doesn't it?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by just another ref

As far as the geographical limits of the officials jurisdiction:

2-2-1: The officials shall make decisions for infractions of the rules committed within or outside the boundary lines.


That pretty much covers everywhere, doesn't it?

So the rule book says it is the official's decision. It does not say the official SHALL or MUST give a T to the coach for something he says in the locker room at halftime. It is a decision. Some would call the T...some wouldn't.

For any official to call another a coward, or question their parenting skills, or their moral fiber simply because that official doesn't see this situation the same way as they do is flat-out wrong. It does nothing more than show the kind of person the name-caller truly is.

[Adam]

All I know is this fence doesn't feel good on my back side.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

All I know is this fence doesn't feel good on my back side.

Watch out for splinters.

I would call the T. I don't think my jurisdiction stops at half-time. However, if someone else chooses not to - that's fine. That is their decision. It doesn't hurt the game of basketball if we don't call it. Basketball has been around far too long for one whiny coach to damage the game. Neither does it erode society if we don't call it.

A far bigger problem for basketball is officials who feel free to call their brethren things like "coward" when the brethren won't call something the way that person wants it called. That is what is disturbing...

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

A far bigger problem for basketball is officials who feel free to call their brethren things like "coward" when the brethren won't call something the way that person wants it called. That is what is disturbing...

Agreed. I find this unacceptable.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So the rule book says it is the official's decision. It does not say the official SHALL or MUST give a T to the coach for something he says in the locker room at halftime. It is a decision. Some would call the T...some wouldn't.

For any official to call another a coward, or question their parenting skills, or their moral fiber simply because that official doesn't see this situation the same way as they do is flat-out wrong. It does nothing more than show the kind of person the name-caller truly is.

Easy, buddy. Don't shoot the messenger. I was just saying that I find this sufficient proof that the technical can indeed be called in the locker room if the official decides it is merited. Just to clarify, some of you that would not call the T in the locker room, is there an instance where you would call it for the same remarks overheard coming from the huddle, or is this still considered to be a private place?

As far as how much is too much in this situation, I find the combination of the comments being "obscenity-laced," along with the use of the word "biased," to be two big strikes. If, on top of this, the officials are reasonably certain that the coach knows they hear him, I have no trouble with the T call.

Having said all this, I am uncertain how the coach gets the news. Do we knock on the door? "Coach, my partner is at the table reporting a technical foul on you for your comments. Your coaches box is gone for the second half. If you wish to see the second half, you should knock it off now."

Or simply say that he's earned the right to finish and settle up when everybody returns from the locker room?

[TussAgee11]

Great thread.

I'm trying to relate it to my sport, baseball - but its near impossible since baseball has no intermission.

Anyways, thought I would throw a thought out there.

What about ignoring it during the half, and then getting the guy the first time he says ANYTHING to you in the 2nd half. If you can slip in a "That's enough" beforehand, great, if not, don't sweat it.

I am envisioning coming back into a gym, and nobody there (including those that are on your side, admins and scorekeepers) knowing what happened in the locker room. Our job is to a) do our job and b) keep a good perception in doing that job.

You're going to catch ALOT of **** for directly dealing with this locker room stuff during that game, and maybe even from assignors in the future.

I don't like baiting, but sometimes in baseball anyways, my mind is made up about a guy, and I want to get rid of him or at least tell him "that's enough," but I can't do it at that time because of other circumstances (in this case, it could be the locker room).

So first chance you do get, maybe an throw-in in front of his bench, give him a "Coach, I didn't make out all of that half-time speech? Care to repeat?" If he comes back with a yes, you got him. Comes back with a no, give him a "Guess I'll have to yell through the showers at you after the game." Say something like that, and I can't imagine any coach keeping his mouth shut. Bam, got him.

And its out in the open, we got a T, 2,000 people saw him lose it, and only 2 people know what was really said, you and him.

Not baiting, just slight manipulation to get what you want without the negative consequences of leaving him in the locker room at half. Just a thought.

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Great thread.

It's about to get even better

I predict 13 pgs.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Great thread.

I'm trying to relate it to my sport, baseball - but its near impossible since baseball has no intermission.

Anyways, thought I would throw a thought out there.

What about ignoring it during the half, and then getting the guy the first time he says ANYTHING to you in the 2nd half. If you can slip in a "That's enough" beforehand, great, if not, don't sweat it.

I am envisioning coming back into a gym, and nobody there (including those that are on your side, admins and scorekeepers) knowing what happened in the locker room. Our job is to a) do our job and b) keep a good perception in doing that job.

You're going to catch ALOT of **** for directly dealing with this locker room stuff during that game, and maybe even from assignors in the future.

I don't like baiting, but sometimes in baseball anyways, my mind is made up about a guy, and I want to get rid of him or at least tell him "that's enough," but I can't do it at that time because of other circumstances (in this case, it could be the locker room).

So first chance you do get, maybe an throw-in in front of his bench, give him a "Coach, I didn't make out all of that half-time speech? Care to repeat?" If he comes back with a yes, you got him. Comes back with a no, give him a "Guess I'll have to yell through the showers at you after the game." Say something like that, and I can't imagine any coach keeping his mouth shut. Bam, got him.

And its out in the open, we got a T, 2,000 people saw him lose it, and only 2 people know what was really said, you and him.

Not baiting, just slight manipulation to get what you want without the negative consequences of leaving him in the locker room at half. Just a thought.

Wow, I disagree with this post on every possible level.
The poster shies away from dealing with the unsporting conduct because he is afraid of taking some heat for do so, but then actually advocates trying to bait and manipulate the coach into a technical foul later in the game in order to make up for it.
Why not take the high road and conduct yourself in an upstanding manner and take care of business with the coach. You'll certainly get less grief for trying to deal with this the right way than by attempting some underhanded method.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Wow, I disagree with this post on every possible level.
The poster shies away from dealing with the unsporting conduct because he is afraid of taking some heat for do so, but then actually advocates trying to bait and manipulate the coach into a technical foul later in the game in order to make up for it.
Why not take the high road and conduct yourself in an upstanding manner and take care of business with the coach. You'll certainly get less grief for trying to deal with this the right way than by attempting some underhanded method.

Listen, maybe in basketball you guys want to handle it. My comments were preceeded by my own baseball background, although I do officiate basketball as well.

As a previous poster said, don't go looking for boogers, they will only lead to bad situations that the best of game management can not fix.

My philosophy was punishing the coach for his actions in a different way, not really baiting him in to do something else. Get him for anything you want in the first 2 mins of the 3Q, but I can't imagine how shooting 2 before the half even starts ends up well.

Its not being a namby pamby, it's dealing with it in a different way. I'll leave the thread on the note, since as I said, my experience on the sport level is baseball, not as much basketball, but thought I would throw in general game management philosophy.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

So first chance you do get, maybe an throw-in in front of his bench, give him a "Coach, I didn't make out all of that half-time speech? Care to repeat?" If he comes back with a yes, you got him. Comes back with a no, give him a "Guess I'll have to yell through the showers at you after the game." Say something like that, and I can't imagine any coach keeping his mouth shut. Bam, got him.

And its out in the open, we got a T, 2,000 people saw him lose it, and only 2 people know what was really said, you and him.Not baiting, just slight manipulation to get what you want without the negative consequences of leaving him in the locker room at half. Just a thought.

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

My philosophy was punishing the coach for his actions in a different way, not really baiting him in to do something else. Get him for anything you want in the first 2 mins of the 3Q, but I can't imagine how shooting 2 before the half even starts ends up well.

I'm trying to see how this is not baiting. Especially considering this.

[Daryl H. Long]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Great thread.

I'm trying to relate it to my sport, baseball - but its near impossible since baseball has no intermission.

Anyways, thought I would throw a thought out there.

What about ignoring it during the half, and then getting the guy the first time he says ANYTHING to you in the 2nd half. If you can slip in a "That's enough" beforehand, great, if not, don't sweat it.

I am envisioning coming back into a gym, and nobody there (including those that are on your side, admins and scorekeepers) knowing what happened in the locker room. Our job is to a) do our job and b) keep a good perception in doing that job.

You're going to catch ALOT of **** for directly dealing with this locker room stuff during that game, and maybe even from assignors in the future.

I don't like baiting, but sometimes in baseball anyways, my mind is made up about a guy, and I want to get rid of him or at least tell him "that's enough," but I can't do it at that time because of other circumstances (in this case, it could be the locker room).

So first chance you do get, maybe an throw-in in front of his bench, give him a "Coach, I didn't make out all of that half-time speech? Care to repeat?" If he comes back with a yes, you got him. Comes back with a no, give him a "Guess I'll have to yell through the showers at you after the game." Say something like that, and I can't imagine any coach keeping his mouth shut. Bam, got him.

And its out in the open, we got a T, 2,000 people saw him lose it, and only 2 people know what was really said, you and him.

Not baiting, just slight manipulation to get what you want without the negative consequences of leaving him in the locker room at half. Just a thought.

To bait or not to bait? that is the question. No, better just use slight manipulation.

My dictionary defines manipulation as: "management with use of unfair, scheming, or underhanded methods esp. for ones own advantage.

FYI...unfair, scheming, and underhanded are not complimentary words used to describe acceptable behavior.

I have been pondering this last sentence. It's a good thing some of us are anonymous on this board as your words reek of unethical behavior in (forgive the analogy) biblical proportions.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Gentlemen:

I have read a number of posts in this thread since my first post. Many of these posts quoted various NFHS Basketball Rules that could possibly be applied to this situation. BUT you do not want to go where many people want to go. DO NOT charge the HC with a TF!

Charging the HC with TF in this situation is a no win situation because it cannot be defended by rule, now matter how many different rules are quoted.

No one will ever accuse me of being a namby pamby when it comes to sportsmanlike behavior, BUT, I am not going to charge the HC with a TF in this situation. Baseball and softball umpires have a saying: Don't go looking for boogers. Charging the HC with a TF in this situation is a Jimmy Durante's nose full of boogers.

AND, there are many many ways that the officials can take care of this HC once the second half begins. And I am sure that there are many many officials who are very very diligent in applying the appropriate Secions of Rule 10 that apply to misconduct of the HC while the game is actually being played.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Gentlemen:

I have read a number of posts in this thread since my first post. Many of these posts quoted various NFHS Basketball Rules that could possibly be applied to this situation. BUT you do not want to go where many people want to go. DO NOT charge the HC with a TF!

Charging the HC with TF in this situation is a no win situation because it cannot be defended by rule, now matter how many different rules are quoted.

No one will ever accuse me of being a namby pamby when it comes to sportsmanlike behavior, BUT, I am not going to charge the HC with a TF in this situation. Baseball and softball umpires have a saying: Don't go looking for boogers. Charging the HC with a TF in this situation is a Jimmy Durante's nose full of boogers.

AND, there are many many ways that the officials can take care of this HC once the second half begins. And I am sure that there are many many officials who are very very diligent in applying the appropriate Secions of Rule 10 that apply to misconduct of the HC while the game is actually being played.

MTD, Sr.

Mark, I have yet to be told why the rules and case plays don't apply.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Mark, I have yet to be told why the rules and case plays don't apply.

They don't apply for those who don't want them to apply. They do apply for those who desire them to. It's that simple.

Considering the NFHS's stance on sporting behavior and inappropriate language, I'm very comfortable penalizing this coach. That kind of stuff is unacceptable at the HS level. I just can't see any assignor or state governing body having a problem with an official taking action here.