Coach's Behavior

[Mountaineer]

OK, did I hear correctly (I listened to the video three times) that this guy makes $78,000 for teaching/coaching? WOW!!!!

[Jimgolf]

This is a good example of why not to use those catchy phrases we hear about. The official in question told the coach, "Hey coach, your next comment will be your last comment," assuming the coach would take this as a warning of an impending technical foul. Instead, the coach took this as a threat of impending bodily harm, leading to the later confrontation, "Hey Eric, you don't have your stripes on anymore. Do you still want to threaten me?"

"You're about to earn a technical foul," might have been a better choice of phraseology here. While the coach may still have been incensed, he wouldn't have "The referee threatened me first" defense to use.

While two wrongs don't make a right, the OHSAA decided that two wrongs means no one gets punished. The coach's school is still deciding if any action against the coach is warranted.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

This is a good example of why not to use those catchy phrases we hear about. The official in question told the coach, "Hey coach, your next comment will be your last comment," assuming the coach would take this as a warning of an impending technical foul. Instead, the coach took this as a threat of impending bodily harm, leading to the later confrontation, "Hey Eric, you don't have your stripes on anymore. Do you still want to threaten me?"

"You're about to earn a technical foul," might have been a better choice of phraseology here. While the coach may still have been incensed, he wouldn't have "The referee threatened me first" defense to use.

While two wrongs don't make a right, the OHSAA decided that two wrongs means no one gets punished. The coach's school is still deciding if any action against the coach is warranted.

No way in hell did that coach take the official's comment as a threat of physical action - he just used that as an excuse later to cover his fat a$$ when he realized he was in trouble...

OK, now having said that, I agree with Jim - those catchy phrases usually do nothing but get you into trouble. Just ask Batman!

[Texas Aggie]

Instead, the coach took this as a threat of impending bodily harm

If true, this was clearly an unreasonable reaction. No reasonable person would consider that a threat.

However, I do agree with you that there may be better things to say to coaches. I try to limit warnings, as if they aren't carried out, you've lost credibility. Put up the stop sign or make a verbal warning something like "coach, you've had your say," followed by blowing the whistle and letting your partner(s) know by stating, "coach/bench has been warned." Further infractions warrant a T.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

This is a good example of why not to use those catchy phrases we hear about. The official in question told the coach, "Hey coach, your next comment will be your last comment," assuming the coach would take this as a warning of an impending technical foul. Instead, the coach took this as a threat of impending bodily harm, leading to the later confrontation, "Hey Eric, you don't have your stripes on anymore. Do you still want to threaten me?"

Hold up, did we forget about the run at the official at the end of the game. What does that comment have to do with him running at the offical at the end of the game, as if to try and take a swing at him, then threw him the finger, twice! I'm sorry, I'm not buying that.

As far as the confrontation later, yes, I could see where this comment set off the coach. Man, I hope I never run into a coach like this.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

As far as the confrontation later, yes, I could see where this comment set off the coach. Man, I hope I never run into a coach like this.

One would need to actually officiate first.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

However, I do agree with you that there may be better things to say to coaches. I try to limit warnings, as if they aren't carried out, you've lost credibility. Put up the stop sign or make a verbal warning something like "coach, you've had your say," followed by blowing the whistle and letting your partner(s) know by stating, "coach/bench has been warned." Further infractions warrant a T.

I notice a lot of officials have trouble in this area when it comes to communicating in the game with a coach. At times, I have to check myself as all it takes is one little slip and downhill she goes.

Case in point, game just started, F/T situation, I'm administrating. After the 2nd shot, coach felt that a player stepped into the lane too early. I didn't see anything unusual. As I'm going up the court after the F/T's, the coach gives me a lecture on when a player can step in, and I'm like, what! I couldn't believe it. So I told the coach, don't talk to me! But I meant to say I know what the rule is, I don't need you to explain it to me, but of course I didn't have enough time to say all of that, so out it came. When I got up the court, I realize that that response was way too harsh on my part, uncalled for, and creates a hostile or negative environment between me and the coach, right off the bat. At the first dead whistle I went right to the coach and apologize for my negative comment and that I didn't see it and will watch it closer the next time. He in turn apologize to me and said he wasn't trying to show me up. Luckily, I got things back to square one between us.

The reason I'm sharing this is so that you can see how easy it is to setup a negative environment with your response. The coaches impression of me after that comment is that I'm a dick, rightfully so. Never, ever speak to a coach in this manner. Choose your words carefully and if you don't have the time to think it thru before responding, then don't respond (silent can't be quoted). Now, if a coach is out of line, like I reason him to be here. I have a 3 strike and you're out (that's a T) policy. What I mean is I walk up the court, and he complains, I got no comment or no time to answer. I come back down and he's still complaining or talking about the same incident (kid stepped into the lane too early). I then turn to go back up the court, and he's still complaining. That's 3 strikes, that's a automatic T in my book. Now, I do take the incident into consideration. This incident is a very small issue, especially in the beginning of the game and I view it as being disrespectful to argue that point to this degree. Plus, what is this guy going to do when something serious happens? I'm going to nip this in the bud right now. Call a T, report constant complaining from the coach to the table. Make sure the coach hears this. This gets the point across and you never said one word. I'm also not mad at him, I'm not going to showcase him with an empathic T signal either. He also gets to remain seated afterwards. Now the coach can do some reflecting of his own, like was that issue really worth pushing to the extent that he did. Those two points could cost him the game. Oh, and one more thing and I know this isn't right but wait until they got the ball so that he loses possession as well. Sorry but that's the price you pay for constantly complaining.

I wish I would have done this instead of what I did because this is way more effective. I open my mouth and dug a hole 6' deep for myself, but the point is it's so easy to do, and most of us probably don't even realize we're doing it.

I'm starting to lean away from warnings mainly because I don't agree with passing the buck to my partners. If I'm having a problem with the coach it's my responsibility to take care of it, not my partners. Likewise, I don't want my partners problems with the coach either. Don't put me in the middle of this.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Old School

I have a 3 strike and you're out (that's a T) policy. What I mean is I walk up the court, and he complains, I got no comment or no time to answer. I come back down and he's still complaining or talking about the same incident (kid stepped into the lane too early). I then turn to go back up the court, and he's still complaining. That's 3 strikes, that's a automatic T in my book. Now, I do take the incident into consideration. This incident is a very small issue, especially in the beginning of the game and I view it as being disrespectful to argue that point to this degree. Plus, what is this guy going to do when something serious happens? I'm going to nip this in the bud right now. Call a T, report constant complaining from the coach to the table.

If you're going to nip it in the bud, what the hell are you doing waiting for 3 trips up and down the floor to sack up and do something about it? You're making more problems for yourself by not addressing it. I don't have a problem with you ignoring the initial chirping, but if the coach is still chirping about it the next time down the floor it needs to be dealt with. 3 strikes applies to baseball, not coaching managment.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Junker

If you're going to nip it in the bud, what the hell are you doing waiting for 3 trips up and down the floor to sack up and do something about it?

Confirmation! 2 times and he's just spouting off, 3 times and it's personal.

Originally Posted by Junker

You're making more problems for yourself by not addressing it. I don't have a problem with you ignoring the initial chirping, but if the coach is still chirping about it the next time down the floor it needs to be dealt with. 3 strikes applies to baseball, not coaching managment.

If you read what I stated, I believe I did say it was my policy and not the NFHS policy.

There could be reasons for not addressing it like keeping an eye on the action that never stopped. Like, no the kid did not step in the lane too early, get over it because I'm moving on. I'm not entering into a debate with the coach over something so small, or every little thing that happens. I got a game to work here. Plus, another thing I notice you didn't catch. The coach did not ask a question, he made a statement and generally I do not respond to statements. If he would have asked a question like, didn't that player step in the lane too early? This is a completely different set of circumstances.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Old School

Confirmation! 2 times and he's just spouting off, 3 times and it's personal.

If you read what I stated, I believe I did say it was my policy and not the NFHS policy.

There could be reasons for not addressing it like keeping an eye on the action that never stopped. Like, no the kid did not step in the lane too early, get over it because I'm moving on. I'm not entering into a debate with the coach over something so small, or every little thing that happens. I got a game to work here. Plus, another thing I notice you didn't catch. The coach did not ask a question, he made a statement and generally I do not respond to statements. If he would have asked a question like, didn't that player step in the lane too early? This is a completely different set of circumstances.

I agree. A coach that isn't asking a question doesn't need a response. But if they are still complaining after another trip down the floor they need to be T'd or at least told to let it go. There are times when ignoring the issue doesn't solve it and by not addressing the concerns or problems on the second trip you are almost baiting him into the T you give on your "third strike".

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Junker

I agree. A coach that isn't asking a question doesn't need a response. But if they are still complaining after another trip down the floor they need to be T'd or at least told to let it go. There are times when ignoring the issue doesn't solve it and by not addressing the concerns or problems on the second trip you are almost baiting him into the T you give on your "third strike".

Baiting or teaching? Either way, if I don't respond, that is my responce. Remember, a question was never asked. Rather then me saying no he didn't, I just don't say anything and keep my focus on the game which is what you are paid to do. You are not there to console the coach. The key is I let him vent his concerns, 2 times up/down the court. It's time to let it go because it's not going to change, we're 2 sequences pass it. Anything more in my opinion is personal and he's trying to start something. Once you hit the 3rd stike, it is automatic. Remember, the key here is to show no emotion, you are not upset about anything. In fact, now you can have that conversation with the coach that he so wanted. IOW's he paid for this conversation, like buying a TO that you don't have.

[Junker]

Baiting......

[bluballs]

ya that is a joke!

[JAdams]

I work games in the Greater Maimi Conference, of which Lakota East is one of the schools. Referees are assigned in that league by an assignor who is not a basketball referee -- he makes assignments solely by coaches' voting. Given this policy, I don't think the referee involved has any chance of officiating boys games in the GMC in the future.

By the way, I know the official involved...I've worked several games with him in the past five years. He is a quality individual with tons of integrity. There is no doubt in my mind that he's telling the truth. I talked to him after this story broke two weeks ago, and he told me that he's very comfortable with what he did. He has two grade-school-age kids, and he said that he could not teach them about ethics if he didn't publicize this incident and get it out in the open.

Sad story all the way around, if you ask me.

[Larks]

Official will not pursue further action against coach
Lakota East's Walter Vickers apologized for post-game behavior toward referee at a Middletown game.

LIBERTY TWP. — The investigation into a Lakota coach accused of threatening a basketball referee is closed, according to state and Lakota officials.

The Ohio High School Athletic Association ruled Lakota handled the situation appropriately and Lakota East Coach Walter Vickers apologized sufficiently for post-game behavior and comments Jan. 30 at the Lakota versus Middletown game at Lakota East High School.

Referee Eric Lindsay had complained that Vickers pointed at him and then approached in a threatening manner.

After the game, Lindsay said, Vickers goaded him to fight outside.

"No further communication or action is needed," wrote Henry Zaborniak Jr., assistant commissioner of the OHSAA. "The OHSAA considers the matter closed."

East Athletic Director Jim Rouff said Vickers had been jumping up and down excitedly on the court, and though he was wrong for pointing at the official, he said Vickers did not attempt to strike Lindsay. Vickers wrote an apology letter for speaking to Lindsay after the game.

"The accusations against me were unsubstantiated and frivolous," Vickers wrote in a released statement. "This was the second time this official has worked one of our games. I find it contentious that he would think he can evaluate my teaching and coaching, which is something I have been doing for 25 years."

Lindsay issued a statement Wednesday that said he believes there was enough "shame and embarrassment" brought on from the charges.

"Taxpayers will now be made to feel that their concerns will be taken seriously and that coaches will not be protected when they step out of line," he wrote. "I feel we have been successful and I have no problem moving on."

Georgetta Kelly, director of human resources for Lakota, said the district has closed its investigation.

During the investigation, she said the district realized it needed to improve its policy for handling complaints.

"We looked at a complaint tracking system," she said. "What we're going to do now is centralize complaints that come into the district."