Travel or not

[HawkeyeCubP]

I believe I made an error in my original post - the throw-in, if I am right on everything else, would be from the spot the throw-in was released by A1 - not the spot of the violation, as I originally said. My mistake.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

decee, Scrapper, and Jurassic -

Sorry - I was not clear enough in my last post. The player (let's call him/her A3) I was envisioning (and not describing well enough by only saying "out of bounds status") was basically under the basket, one foot touching out of bounds, not facing the thrower (possibly performing whatever part of the press-break play they're responsible for - screening, getting out of the way, etc., as the thrower is gathering the ball following the made basket), and gets hit by an out of bounds pass (say on their arm) from thrower A1 that is intended for A2, who is also out of bounds, on the other side of the key.

I'm asserting that this player is also out of bounds, on the same (end)line as the thrower (as decee said), but that this is a throw-in violation by A under 9-2-10, similar in rationale to 4.35.2(b).

(I agree that the ball touching another A player who is completely out of bounds on an endline pass during the throw-in would not be a violation.)

Again, I disagree. R9-2-10, as you stated, refers to a "throw-in pass". A throw-in pass", by rule (7-6-1) is thrown directly into the court, not along the end line. Rule 9-2-2 basically says the same thing. Iow rule 9-2-10 is not relevant or germane. When A1 is throwing the ball along the endline, that is a legal pass under R7-5-7, not a throw-in. A3 was hit OOB by a legal pass. There isn't any violation extant that you can call that I know of when that happens.


If A3 had one foot OOB, then he was legally OOB and had OOB status too btw. Case book play 4.35.2(b) isn't relevant either. Rules 7-5-7 and 7-6-1 are.

[Texas Aggie]

A "pass" is defined as a movement of the ball -- thrown, batted, or rolled -- to another player (Aggie paraphrase; 4-31). There's no requirement that the ball be caught by the other player. If it hits him in the back while he's OOB and the ball stays OOB, then we are still OK. As long as we don't have a throw in violation (5 seconds, passing the ball onto the court, etc.) or a "caused to go OOB" violation (player touching the ball OOB while being inbounds, etc.), and the ball is thrown, batted, or rolled to another player, we are OK. Play on.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Again, I disagree. R9-2-10, as you stated, refers to a "throw-in pass". A throw-in pass", by rule (7-6-1) is thrown directly into the court, not along the end line. Rule 9-2-2 basically says the same thing. Iow rule 9-2-10 is not relevant or germane. When A1 is throwing the ball along the endline, that is a legal pass under R7-5-7, not a throw-in. A3 was hit OOB by a legal pass. There isn't any violation extant that you can call that I know of when that happens.

If A3 had one foot OOB, then he was legally OOB and had OOB status too btw. Case book play 4.35.2(b) isn't relevant either. Rules 7-5-7 and 7-6-1 are.

Beaten into submission yet again....

Thanks, guys.

[Johnny Ringo]

A lot of confusion here: To calrify one part ... after a made basket A1 takes ball OOB and passes to A2, who is also OOB (beyond the endline) ... is A2 allowed to also run the baseline?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

A lot of confusion here: To calrify one part ... after a made basket A1 takes ball OOB and passes to A2, who is also OOB (beyond the endline) ... is A2 allowed to also run the baseline?

The only throw-in restrictions after a made or awarded basket are that the throw-in must be towards the court, the thrower is OOB when he lets the throw-in go and the throw-in leaves the thrower's hands before 5 seconds. Other than that, team A can have 5 players OOB doing a Globetrotters routine if they want to. Or the Macarena.

[Johnny Ringo]

I don't follow your post. A1 has to throw towards the court?
What about to A2 who is also OOB. Can A2 run the baseline as well?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

I don't follow your post. A1 has to throw towards the court?
What about to A2 who is also OOB. Can A2 run the baseline as well?

Anybody from the throwing team can run the end line out-of-bounds. Anybody from the throwing team can also be out-of-bounds until a throw-in is made. Anybody from the throwing team can pass the ball back and forth to each other along the endline as long as one of them starts a throw-in before the 5-second count is up.

A throw-in is always directed towards the court--i.e. in bounds. If the ball is directed along the endline OOB to a teammate, then they're passes, not a throw-in.

Make sense now?

[Johnny Ringo]

I think so ... so, once A1 passes to A2, A2 can also run the endline, correct? And A2 could also pass to A3?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

I think so ... so, once A1 passes to A2, A2 can also run the endline, correct? And A2 could also pass to A3?

Yes. All 5 A players can run the endline and all 5 A players can pass the ball to each other out-of-bounds.

[Johnny Ringo]

That would be hard to do in 5 seconds Thanks!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

A "pass" is defined as a movement of the ball -- thrown, batted, or rolled -- to another player (Aggie paraphrase; 4-31). There's no requirement that the ball be caught by the other player. If it hits him in the back while he's OOB and the ball stays OOB, then we are still OK. As long as we don't have a throw in violation (5 seconds, passing the ball onto the court, etc.) or a "caused to go OOB" violation (player touching the ball OOB while being inbounds, etc.), and the ball is thrown, batted, or rolled to another player, we are OK. Play on.

Just to add to this; if the ball hits A2 in the back (he's OOB) and bounces directly inbounds without touching the floor OOB, this bounce is now the throwin and must be touched inbounds next by anyone but A2 to avoid a throwin violation.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Sorry - I was not clear enough in my last post. The player (let's call him/her A3) I was envisioning (and not describing well enough by only saying "out of bounds status") was basically under the basket, one foot touching out of bounds,

Hmm.... was the other foot touching inbounds? If so does this violate the "the inbounder shall not touch the court inbounds before releasing the ball on a throw-in pass" (or wahtever it says) rule? I'm without myu books today, and too lazy to try to read them on-line.

[BktBallRef]

Good grief. Some are making this situation far too difficult.

After a made or awarded basket, Team A cannot do anything during the throw-in that changes it to a spot throw-in. Any number of players can run the baseline after legally catching the ball while OOB.

If a Team A player is straddling the boundary line when he touches a live ball during a throw-in, IT IS A VIOLATION. There's no scenario where that would be legal.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

If a Team A player is straddling the boundary line when he touches a live ball during a throw-in, IT IS A VIOLATION. There's no scenario where that would be legal.

That was my first thought as well. However, after reading JR's take on this, I decided to think about it for a while and check some rules before I posted my answer.