No Travel, Just Kidding Travel Kas v Arz

fletch_irwin_m · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 31, 2003, 10:22am

I may have missed it on the board, but did anyone see the Kansas Arizona game? There was a play in front of the T where Heinrich (?) did the "I am jumping to pass/shoot but really don't want to jump" play. The T saw the play and motioned that there was No travel. Heinrich then passes the ball and begins to cut. The C comes all the way across the court with a whistle and says that there was a traveling. Eventually the T changes his call and signals traveling. Looking at the replay, Heinrich definelty left his feet. The T was making signals to state there was no travel, Heinrich passes and cuts, then the C comes over.
Any thoughts on how this was handled? They got the call right, but did they go about it the right way?

TriggerMN · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 31, 2003, 11:52am

I saw the play. I think it was Tony Greene who came over from C, but I'm not sure. IMHO, in a game of that magnitude, with a call so obviously missed, I felt they did the right thing by calling the travel. I know this breaks the sacred rule of calling your own area, and the "why was he looking over there anyways?" but I would have done the same thing.

How about dipsh!t Roy Williams at halftime? "We can't have the referees making up the rules as they go!" Well coach, first of all, they didn't make up a rule, traveling is traveling. Second, there are in fact three officials on the floor, but only one referee! :0

Tim C · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 31, 2003, 12:46pm

1) I saw the call also and was amazed there was not a travel called, in a timely manner.

2) I know that William's issue was wondering if it was OK, for an official to come from along ways away (after a considerable delay) and change a call in front of another official. While you guys know everything about all the rules not all coaches have the depth of knowledge you guys show.

3) If is the "dumbest" thing in the world to make statements such as, "Second, there are in fact three officials on the floor, but only one referee!" Only officials know there is a difference and to make this a point is childish at best . . . I thought we could move above this.

4) The 'real' question remains, "why did the off official have to come over and cause this or why did not the nearest official make the call?"

5) All in all the call that was finally made was correct, isn't that a good thing? And guys, coaches get fired for losing games they have a great investment in how games are called (or in this single play, not called) and they MUST be given the leeway that is seen.

I think the call was finally correct and done as well as possible. It was almost a "Third World Play" that any D1 coach would have legitimately questioned it.

canuckrefguy · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 31, 2003, 12:55pm

Didn't see it, but from the sounds of it, although INCREDIBLY embarrassing for the T official, it was the right thing to do. Sounds like it was handled about in the most nonchalant way possible (if that's even possible with 50,000 fans and a national TV audience).

If the C is in a good spot, with a wide view, an obvious jump-up-and-down travel across the court would be well within his field of vision.

PublicBJ · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 31, 2003, 01:10pm

The dork announcer didn't help any either. He was going off on the official "overruling" the other official. If I recall, the official didn't "overrule", he came and talked to the first official and allowed him to make the call.

Even after the replay showed that the officials ultimately made the right call, the bonehead commentator is still going off on the officials for changing the call, even though he admitted it to be right. The other commentator was much nicer, stating that the right call had been made, and that was the important thing.

CLAY · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 31, 2003, 01:27pm

The right call was made, however the T was not sure of his area. Sometimes with three officails you sort of lose track of your area. So he must of figured it was the C area, and the C called his area, it just took a little longer than most calls.

ChuckElias · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 31, 2003, 01:31pm

Quote:

Originally posted by CLAY
The right call was made, however the T was not sure of his area.

Clay, I highly doubt that an official of that caliber and experience was unsure of his primary area of responsibility. He may have taken his eye of the play at the wrong moment, but there's no way he "lost track" of his area.

Chuck

ChuckElias · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 31, 2003, 01:33pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim C
3) If is the "dumbest" thing in the world to make statements such as, "Second, there are in fact three officials on the floor, but only one referee!" Only officials know there is a difference and to make this a point is childish at best . . . I thought we could move above this.

I think that was intended as humorous, Tim. He even attempted to put a little smiley after it. Nobody expects a coach to know the difference between Referee and Umpire. Heck they don't even know that they can't call time-outs!

Somebody send Tim that humor plug-in!

Chuck

Jurassic Referee · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 31, 2003, 01:33pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim C

4) The 'real' question remains, "why did the off official have to come over and cause this or why did not the nearest official make the call?"

5) All in all the call that was finally made was correct, isn't that a good thing? And guys, coaches get fired for losing games they have a great investment in how games are called (or in this single play, not called) and they MUST be given the leeway that is seen.

I think the call was finally correct and done as well as possible. It was almost a "Third World Play" that any D1 coach would have legitimately questioned it.

From the view that I had,it looked like the Trail looked off the ball just before the travel-maybe because there was no real pressure-and that's why he missed it.Been there-done that.The C did a good job bringing it to the T's attention and taking the call over.The trail was smart enough to let the C do that.The guy's got the call correct,and that's all that matters,as you said.The Trail also did a good job keeping ol' Roy halfway under control too,until he had a chance to cool down. JMO.

Camron Rust · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 31, 2003, 02:17pm

One thing that was missed is that it wasn't an "overrule". There is no such call as a "No Travel". The C saw an obvious violation that everyone in the gym (except the T) saw. The cal l was clearly in the T's area, probably 10ft. off the T's sideline and above the arc. The C, looking through the lane, could easily see it. I wouldn't be suprised if the lead saw it too.

Now, if the T calls travel, the C should NOT come over and say "No Travel". That would be overruling.

Mark Dexter · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 31, 2003, 02:37pm

I'd like to see this supposed "no travel" signal.

For NF, it must be right between "kicked ball" and "goaltending."

fletch_irwin_m · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 31, 2003, 03:18pm

It is sort of hard to describe the mechanic for "no travel" but as has been discussed over and again on this board, tournament officials are not above making up their own mechanics. All I can say is he was making a signal to show everyone that he saw the play but did not see the travel.
This is why our supervisor does not like us to make a "no signal signal". I.E. The tip, spacing symbol for closely guarded or "wave off".

sj · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 31, 2003, 03:25pm

****I didn't see it. How far away was the Trail from the play? For me anyway sometimes it hard to discern travelling if you are right on top of it or just too close.

JRutledge · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 31, 2003, 04:00pm

I do not think it was that easy to determine it was an actual travel. I mean there was no close up. You could not see both feet and there relationship to the floor. And the commentators (not the best source, but here it goes) said the T indicated that there was no travel. But this is one the reasons I was watching, and those officials were actually officiating. Because when I saw the play, I was thinking, "you have to be right there to see that one."

But that is my take.

Peace

Camron Rust · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 31, 2003, 08:28pm

Quote:

Originally posted by sj
****I didn't see it. How far away was the Trail from the play? For me anyway sometimes it hard to discern travelling if you are right on top of it or just too close.

The trail was too close. Certainly less than 10 feet. Probably more like 6-7 feet. From the camera angle from the center's side of the floor, it was clear that both feet came several inches off the floor. It really wasn't even that close to be controversial. The only thing that made it so was that the center came across the floor to make the call a little late.