Travel?

[Dan_ref]

Scramble for the ball. A1 laying on B1, both on the floor. A1 secures the ball & rolls off B1.

Travel? Or not?

[just another ref]

Is this a trick question? A1 is on top of B1. Why is that not a foul?

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Scramble for the ball. A1 laying on B1, both on the floor. A1 secures the ball & rolls off B1.

Travel? Or not?

My answer is yes in both NFHS and NCAA. You have a player with possession of the ball fall to the floor.

[ChuckElias]

Heck, yeah, it's a travel. But there was probably a foul first.

[IREFU2]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Scramble for the ball. A1 laying on B1, both on the floor. A1 secures the ball & rolls off B1.

Travel? Or not?

Call the foul on A1 for laying on top of B1, forget the travel.

[Jimgolf]

Why is this a foul on A1? Considerable contact is allowed on this play.

In addition, it is possible that this is the result of B1 tripping A1, or pulling the ball and the player to the floor.

[IREFU2]

Originally posted by Jimgolf
Why is this a foul on A1? Considerable contact is allowed on this play.

In addition, it is possible that this is the result of B1 tripping A1, or pulling the ball and the player to the floor.

There is not enough information to support that. You would be better off calling the foul for A1 laying on top of B1

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jimgolf
Why is this a foul on A1? Considerable contact is allowed on this play.

As long as the two players start from equally advantageous positions. If B1 is on the floor and reaching for the ball and A1 lands on top of him, that's a foul.

[Jimgolf]

Originally posted by IREFU2

There is not enough information to support that.

That's my point. There's not enough information to call a foul either.

[IREFU2]

Originally posted by Jimgolf

That's my point. There's not enough information to call a foul either.

Well whenever you have an opposing player laying on top of another player, than that is a foul.

[Jimgolf]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

As long as the two players start from equally advantageous positions. If B1 is on the floor and reaching for the ball and A1 lands on top of him, that's a foul.

That's part of the rule, but not the complete rule. "Contact which occurs unintentionally in an effort by an opponent to reach a loose ball or contact which may result when opponents are in equally favorable positions to perform normal defensive or offensive movements, should not be considered illegal, even though the contact may be severe".

[JCrow]

Scramble for the ball. A1 laying on B1, both on the floor. A1 secures the ball & rolls off B1.

Travel? Or not?
__________________

OK.....Ok.....first let's clean up the grammar. Kids read this Forum. We don't want little Johnny or Jane to get a rejection letter from Princeton because they read the Officials Forum. Instead of promising Medical Careers...they might end up as Refs?

Don't mix up 'lie' and 'lay'. You lay something, as in they are going to lay the carpet, but you lie down on a bed or other flat surface. Sentences such as he is laying on the bed or why don't you lie it on the bed? are wrong: correct forms are he is lying on the bed and why don't you lay it on the bed?

Back to the play. If B1 is lying on his or her back with both feet on the floor facing A1. I call that Legal Guarding Position. A1 secures control and gravity slams him/her down onto B1. It's basically a Gravitational Player Control Foul. Simple....no need to worry about all those overly complicated Traveling Rules.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Jimgolf

That's part of the rule, but not the complete rule. "Contact which occurs unintentionally in an effort by an opponent to reach a loose ball or contact which may result when opponents are in equally favorable positions to perform normal defensive or offensive movements, should not be considered illegal, even though the contact may be severe".

I agree with Jim completely. There's no information available in the original post that would let us determine whether there was a foul or incidental contact. Just lying on top of an opponent does not mean that a foul has been committed.

No matter what, whether a foul occurred or didn't occur is completely irrelevant to the original question-- which is "is this a travel or not?".

[IREFU2]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

I agree with Jim completely. There's no information available in the original post that would let us determine whether there was a foul or incidental contact. Just lying on top of an opponent does not mean that a foul has been committed.

No matter what, whether a foul occurred or didn't occur is completely irrelevant to the original question-- which is "is this a travel or not?".

If B1 rolls off of A1, and dosent attempt to pass the ball, its a travel.

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control. A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without violating? RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jimgolf
That's part of the rule, but not the complete rule. "Contact which occurs unintentionally in an effort by an opponent to reach a loose ball or contact which may result when opponents are in equally favorable positions to perform normal defensive or offensive movements, should not be considered illegal, even though the contact may be severe".

That 'unintentional contact' is bumping shoulders or something like that. Jumping onto someone else's back is not unintentional contact, IMHO.

And notice in my original reply, I didn't say this was definitely a foul. I said it was definitely a travel, but there was probably a foul first. Hard to land on somebody's back without there being a foul there somewhere.