Post Play

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Um, yeah? And that's basically what the previous two years of NFHS POE's say also, as I cited previously. Iow, a foream is considered an automatic foul under NFHS rules.

I think I might be missing the point that you're trying to make.

I'm saying that this particular citation doesn't support the point that a forearm is an automatic foul, since it specifies jabbing, which no one would contend is not a foul.

BTW, in NYC it is called the way Rainmaker posted: If the forearm is not extended, then it is not called a foul.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

I'm saying that this particular citation doesn't support the point that a forearm is an automatic foul, since it specifies jabbing, which no one would contend is not a foul.

And what's your position on the previous two year's citations.

Again, verbatim from the POE- "Use of the forearm regardless of the duration of the contact is a FOUL". Note that the FED capitalized the word "FOUL" in that citation, not me. Iow, if a player puts a forearm on any other player, no matter where it is on the court or for how long, they consider that a foul.

Do you agree with the above NFHS citation? Or are you saying that the FED citation is wrong?

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And what's your position on the previous two year's citations.

Again, verbatim from the POE- "Use of the forearm regardless of the duration of the contact is a FOUL". Note that the FED capitalized the word "FOUL" in that citation, not me. Iow, if a player puts a forearm on any other player, no matter where it is on the court or for how long, they consider that a foul.

Do you agree with the above NFHS citation? Or are you saying that the FED citation is wrong?

Is this the FED citation in it's entirety? I got it off the Iowa referee's website, so it may have been edited for their use:

C. Post Play:

1. The offense can "shape up" to receive a pass or to force the defense to deploy or assume a legal guarding position at the side, in front or behind the offensive post player. When the offensive player then uses the "swim stroke," pushes, pins, elbows, forearms, holds, clears with the body, or just generally demonstrates rough physical movements or tactics, this is a foul on the offensive player and must be called without warning.

2. The defense can assume a legal, vertical stance or position on the side, front or behind the offensive post player. When the defense undercuts (initiates lower-body non-vertical contact), slaps, pushes, holds, elbows, forearms or just generally demonstrates rough, physical movements or tactics, this is a foul on the defense and must be called without warning.

3. When a player pushes a leg or knee into the rear of an opponent, it is a foul.

4. When a player dislodges an opponent from an established position by pushing or "backing in," it is a foul.

5. When a player uses hands, forearms or elbows to prevent an opponent from maintaining a legal position, it is a foul.

This seems to allow contact with the forearm except when used to gain advantage. In number 2, when they say "forearms ..." they are referring to a rough forearm movement.

The context here is elimination of rough contact, not simple contact.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

1) Is this the FED citation in it's entirety? I got it off the Iowa referee's website, so it may have been edited for their use:

2) This seems to allow contact with the forearm except when used to gain advantage. In number 2, when they say "forearms ..." they are referring to a rough forearm movement.

The context here is elimination of rough contact, not simple contact.

1) Yes, that's the complete citation with regards to use of a forearm.

2) No, it does NOT allow contact of any kind with a forearm. They are not referring to rough forearm movement; they are referring to any forearm movement. The FED regards simple forearm contact as being a foul- every time- and that's exactly what that POE is saying..

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) Yes, that's the complete citation with regards to use of a forearm.

2) No, it does NOT allow contact of any kind with a forearm. They are not referring to rough forearm movement; they are referring to any forearm movement. The FED regards simple forearm contact as being a foul- every time- and that's exactly what that POE is saying..

In essence it says:

When the defense forearms, this is a foul on the defense and must be called without warning.

When you "forearm" someone, you are striking them with your forearm, not merely placing your forearm on them. Placing your forearm on someone is incidental contact.

[ChuckElias]

Jim, you're fighting a losing battle here. The FED does not want the arm-bar in HS games, period. It doesn't matter if it's extending the forearm or holding position. No arm-bars. Honest.

[Jurassic Referee]

What Chuck said....

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Jim, you're fighting a losing battle here. The FED does not want the arm-bar in HS games, period. It doesn't matter if it's extending the forearm or holding position. No arm-bars. Honest.

"If a player contacts an opponent with a forearm, it is always a foul".

How hard is that to write?

It doesn't say that.

NFHS, please hire a writer. Or at least an English Major. Maybe you could pay Mr. Annoying Grammar Guy to edit this stuff before sending it out?

I have no argument with what you and Jurassic are saying the interpretation should be. Just that the citation doesn't support it, IMHO.