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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 10:06am
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Hello all,
I would like to get some feedback from you guys.
I was working a JV boys game and there where a couple of big kids on both teams. After the game a long time Varsity official was talking to me about officiating and he noticed me coming ball side on plays in the post. He told me he never comes ball side, and that there was no reason to. For two reasons,
1: "what more do I need to see by coming ball-side that I can’t see from where I was". 2: "if I trust my partner I will never need to come over". Now this goes against every thing I learned about officiating the post. So I wanted to know how you guys officiate post play. Do you come ball-side?? Thanks
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 10:17am
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In two person, we are encouraged to come ball side, especially in the low post. The reasons are: 1. If you stay across the paint, usually all you'll see are the defender's elbows and butt. You are guessing at what is really happening. If you rotate over, you have a better chance of seeing through the play. 2) A call from 4 feet away is easier to sell than a call from 20 feet away (and that assumes the trail has hustled down to pick up this play, and is not calling it from the division line).
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 11:28am
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For me it depends what is happening away from the ball. If there are players across the key setting up for a play I will drop off the end line a bit to get a better angle on all players. If everyone is ball side, I will move in the middle more to see the gap and/or get a good angle on the posts.

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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 11:37am
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Quote:
Originally posted by FrankHtown
In two person, we are encouraged to come ball side, especially in the low post. The reasons are: 1. If you stay across the paint, usually all you'll see are the defender's elbows and butt. You are guessing at what is really happening. If you rotate over, you have a better chance of seeing through the play. 2) A call from 4 feet away is easier to sell than a call from 20 feet away (and that assumes the trail has hustled down to pick up this play, and is not calling it from the division line).
This is the approach I have been using. What this official was telling me was new to me. It was the first time I had heard that philosophy.

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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 11:40am
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I'm not sure what year you are in reffing, but I'm in my second and I have a Mentor this year. Who has helped me a great deal with my game. One thing he encouraged me to do was come ball side when ever the situation arose. I also have talked to more than a few Varsity refs and they also have told me the same thing. So thank this guy for his imput and stow it away in the useless info you do not need.
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 11:40am
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The WNBA did a study and when lead made a call across the paint they got it wrong 70% of the time, so take that for what it is worth.

The to go or not to go is a hot issue in two person and for me, if the ball and the majority of players are on that side I'm going. If the team uses their post player I'm staying with that match up, so that means if the post goes to the ball, I go across with them.
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 11:43am
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Your veteran was an old grump who simply doesn't want to change the way he's been doing things. To ask, "what will you see from there that you can't see from here" is, frankly, a stupid question. If there's nothing happening in the near post and there is -- or soon will be -- action in the far post, then go ref the action.
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 12:01pm
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Wink

In 2 man I will close down to the lane, but never go ball side. If you get a quick skip pass, who is going be out to see if it's a 3? I don't agree with going ball side in 2 man. My best advice would be scrap 2 man completely and go to 3.
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 12:09pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Junker
In 2 man I will close down to the lane, but never go ball side. If you get a quick skip pass, who is going be out to see if it's a 3? I don't agree with going ball side in 2 man. My best advice would be scrap 2 man completely and go to 3.
My guess would be that you miss a lot of post stuff...the day I can't get my butt back across the key in time to cover a shot after a skip pass is the day I hang it up...in two person, you have got to come across, especially when the T has the ball in the corner and 5 other players over on that side of the court. No way can he/she cover that ball deep, the post action low, and the screen being set at the high post corner - get over there and help, and then get back when you need to.
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 12:11pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrs_schuster
I'm not sure what year you are in reffing, but I'm in my second and I have a Mentor this year. Who has helped me a great deal with my game. One thing he encouraged me to do was come ball side when ever the situation arose. I also have talked to more than a few Varsity refs and they also have told me the same thing. So thank this guy for his imput and stow it away in the useless info you do not need.
This is me 5th season. Unfortunately we do not have a mentoring program here, but we should. I will come ball-side when the play dictates I need to. I think most of what this official had to say was good stuff, but when he got on this topic I did not agree with it. I was curious how many other officials work the post his way.
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 12:19pm
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I'm going to disagree with you Rocky as would the people that taught me. I think that if you are getting on the other side of the lane, you are out of your primary and potentially out of position. The play I envisioned was, you come across to get post players on ball side, ball gets passed over the top beyond the arc for a 3. Not that you are out of shape, but there's no way can you get from the ball side of the lane to the arc as fast as a pass. Also, if you close to the lane, what post play can't you see. You can get deep and see the whole lane, you'll see players wrapping arms around each other and you can see displacement. I just don't see the great advantage of going ball side. I'm open to suggestions to convince me otherwise of course.
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 12:52pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Junker
I just don't see the great advantage of going ball side. I'm open to suggestions to convince me otherwise of course.
I'll try. Think in terms of angles, and picture this play: ball goes to T's side, just in front of him/her. Post players go to that side of the lane, with the defender behind the offense (or fronting; either way). Freeze the action, and now you've got almost a straight line from you at L, through the defender, offensive post player, ball handler and defender, and T. If the L goes ball side, they wouldn't have to guess if the defnder is pushing out the post, or if the post is backing down the defender, etc. because they've now got the angle to see between them. Chances are the T isn't going to see it right away because they're watching the ball handler and defender. That play will happen more often than the skip pass going OOB on that far sideline.

Yep, 2-person has it's limitations, especially when compared to 3, but it's learning how to work within those limits to make the best possible calls. You will not come across as often as in 3, but there will be times when it's necessary so you don't have to guess.
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 01:05pm
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I would bet - since I obviously have something against ball-watching - that when the officials go across the paint in this situation there are four eyes on the ball in the post. Sometimes I go, sometimes I don't so it doesn't really matter to me. But, I think coverage suffers unless the crew of two is solid!
A strong, active, trail official will get into a similar position as a C would and be able to see the play. This would only leave the front (basket) side for the L to get from across the paint. It is done all the time in 3-person. Like I said, sometimes I go and sometimes I don't.
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 01:21pm
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I see what you all are saying, but to me, I can see enough from the opposite side of the land if there is enough displacement to call a foul. I would feel out of position if I were ball side. I do go if there's a CF and the ball is loose on the floor, but that's about the only time. In a normal, half-court offense I just don't think it gains as much as it could hurt.
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 01:29pm
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I am also not a big proponent of going ball side. I will do it but I do not see a lot of situations where it is necessary. I am so glad I do not have to work it that much that this is not a major issue. I think this is an acquired taste whether you use this mechanic and how much. Usually players are not in the post very long anyway and I do not see how going ball side is going to make a call that much better. When the ball gets kicked out of the post which happens a lot, then you are out of position to make other calls that are more likely to happen. I think you should use the mechanic but it should be rare. It is not something that is taught around here as a “must use” mechanic.

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