Easy with the T's????

[PIAA REF]

After reading some of these posts about whacking people, throw her out and all the other comments it just seems that you all have a lot of T's. I just find this really uncommon. I at most might give 3 T's a year. Most of them are probably on players for unsportsmanlike things such as taunting or swearing at an opponent. You all seem to have many T's and give them frequently. Do you think that T's are given more often in different parts of the country. I hail from PA and I seldom give a T and neither does my chapter in whole (we have some that give the pretty easy). I was just curious. (But again I did start early this year, already had 1)

[JRutledge]

I do not know if they are given more or if they are given less in my part of the country. I do know the officials that are giving Ts out all the time are usually not the most respected officials. I think a lot of officials feel that is the way they show their authority. I have at times gone years without giving a T. I have this year given a T for a player bouncing the ball in frustration. Usually I have a word with a player or a coach and the complaining or the comments and behavior stops. I have always said that most Ts are the fault of the officials. We allow things to continue and continue and continue and then we stick them when things have long been out of hand.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally posted by PIAA REF
After reading some of these posts about whacking people, throw her out and all the other comments it just seems that you all have a lot of T's. I just find this really uncommon. I at most might give 3 T's a year. Most of them are probably on players for unsportsmanlike things such as taunting or swearing at an opponent. You all seem to have many T's and give them frequently. Do you think that T's are given more often in different parts of the country. I hail from PA and I seldom give a T and neither does my chapter in whole (we have some that give the pretty easy). I was just curious. (But again I did start early this year, already had 1)

I don't think you can make a blanket statement. Some years I have more technicals than others and I don't really keep track from year to year.

[Junker]

For me and alot of guys I work with, it depends on the level of play. I tend to assess more T's in lower level games. It seems that each official has certain behaviors that is their trigger point. I know I went through one season early on where I was a little trigger-happy. As my knowledge of the game, experience, and managment skill have developed, I seem to have to give a T less often. So far this year, the only coach that was even flirting with one was last night in a JV girls game. He was down 20 in the second half so I gave my explanation and walked away. He was continuing to say things that usually warranted a T, but it just would have made an already ugly, poorly played girls game a lot worse. I just stayed away from him for the rest of the night as much as possible.

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by PIAA REF
After reading some of these posts about whacking people, throw her out and all the other comments it just seems that you all have a lot of T's. I just find this really uncommon. I at most might give 3 T's a year. Most of them are probably on players for unsportsmanlike things such as taunting or swearing at an opponent. You all seem to have many T's and give them frequently. Do you think that T's are given more often in different parts of the country. I hail from PA and I seldom give a T and neither does my chapter in whole (we have some that give the pretty easy). I was just curious. (But again I did start early this year, already had 1)

You bring up some valid points, IMO.

But, you do have to remember...there are many officials that post here from around the country...so you are seeing a sampling of different situations from many officials. How many T's do you think are given, around the country, on any given Friday or Saturday night during the BBall season? So, while it may seem like everyone here is T happy...I believe most officials here are just giving their opinion on what they would do if a given situation occured during their game. Many of the officials here probably wouldn't have to worry about it...because the situations might not have escalated to the point of giving a T. (Game Management, presence, credibility, etc.)

Having said that...I just threw out a freaking 7th grade coach the other day for Pete's sake. This was only my 2nd coach ejection in about 17 years of officiating. So either I was having a bad game management day...or he was having a bad "recognizing the situation he was in" day...or a combination of the two...or niether at all, who knows? IMO, it's a feel we get as officials if a T should be issued.

Another example...last night our 3 person crew had a H.S. Varsity coach that probably could/should have been whacked. He had been well behaved for most of the game...but, late in the game his frustration over being behind came out in a not so positive manner. I didn't think he quite crossed the line...but, after the game the AD told us he thought we were going to "take care of his boy" and "we should have went ahead and done it". This tells me we might not have "taken care of business" in the AD's opinion...but, it also might suggest that the AD wants us to "take care of business" so he doesn't have to...or so he will have some ammunition when he goes to discipline him for his behavior. Who knows? Just another learning experience to add to a growing number of learning experiences in this field.

[truerookie]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I do not know if they are given more or if they are given less in my part of the country. I do know the officials that are giving Ts out all the time are usually not the most respected officials. I think a lot of officials feel that is the way they show their authority. I have at times gone years without giving a T. I have this year given a T for a player bouncing the ball in frustration. Usually I have a word with a player or a coach and the complaining or the comments and behavior stops. I have always said that most Ts are the fault of the officials. We allow things to continue and continue and continue and then we stick them when things have long been out of hand.

Peace

Rut, I take allowance to some of your comments. I approach the game ready to enforce all infractions which may occur during the course of the game. I personally, do not see a need to talk anyone out of anything. IMO, officials who are giving out T's are correcting behavior that other officials let go (like talking people out of things). Thus, causing them to be labeled.You are correct in stating, we allow things to continue and continue until it is out of control. Tolerance levels, are different for each official what you may let go others may not. IMO, if the situation warrants a T's you can bet you sweet a** they will receive one.

This in my opinion is where the "HOMER" official concept come into play. I will continue to hire so and so because they will talk me out of anything.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally posted by PIAA REF
After reading some of these posts about whacking people, throw her out and all the other comments it just seems that you all have a lot of T's. I just find this really uncommon. I at most might give 3 T's a year. Most of them are probably on players for unsportsmanlike things such as taunting or swearing at an opponent. You all seem to have many T's and give them frequently. Do you think that T's are given more often in different parts of the country. I hail from PA and I seldom give a T and neither does my chapter in whole (we have some that give the pretty easy). I was just curious. (But again I did start early this year, already had 1)

As many of you know, I am on the other side of thing this year. Coaching instead of officiating. When I was officiating and definetly now as a coach, I see trigger-happy officials. There are too many officials who would rather T you up than explain a call. I received my first T as a coach a few nights ago. All I did was question a call. Official called over the back on an inbound lob pass, I questioned in a calm manner saying my player is 2 feet taller, no contact was made. It was a very quick whistle and undeserved T. As an official everyone knows you are incharge of the game...No need to hand out T's to show it.

[IREFU2]

IMO -

the tolerance of some officials is higher than others. I have a pretty high tolerance and maybe gave out one T last year and none so far this year. As you grow, coaches will know their limits and boundries.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by truerookie


Rut, I take allowance to some of your comments. I approach the game ready to enforce all infractions which may occur during the course of the game. I personally, do not see a need to talk anyone out of anything. IMO, officials who are giving out T's are correcting behavior that other officials let go (like talking people out of things). Thus, causing them to be labeled.You are correct in stating, we allow things to continue and continue until it is out of control. Tolerance levels, are different for each official what you may let go others may not. IMO, if the situation warrants a T's you can bet you sweet a** they will receive one.

This in my opinion is where the "HOMER" official concept come into play. I will continue to hire so and so because they will talk me out of anything.

Here is the thing, you have a right to your opinion and I have a right to my opinion. I want to give Ts that everyone can see (not always possible). I do not want to give Ts when no one understands them. If you feel the only way to correct behavior is by giving a T that is your right to feel that way, but remember when you give one and you could have said a little word first, it will not be I that can say later, "I told the coach before......" If you have a reputation for giving Ts all the time, then the when you give a T to someone, instead of the behavior being questioned, your actions or ability becomes questioned.

Look I had a game earlier in the year where a coach yelled at each of my partners and me across the court about calls. The first opportunity I had to talk to this coach he went nuts. He did not curse, he did not get personal and really he was not being anything but loud. After what I said to him, he did not say another word the rest of the game. He got the message and the behavior stopped without a single T. Now maybe he knew I meant business and stopped. In my opinion I won. Now if you feel that giving a T would have solved a problem then do that. I just know that it was not a big deal in my game, giving a T might have made it a bigger deal.

Once again, the officials that have a reputation for giving Ts are usually not the ones picked for the bigger and better games where the pressure is on in my experience.

Peace

[TimTaylor]

I don't think that you can make a statistical evaluation based on the posts on this board. You need to remember that the vast majority of situations that get brought up here probably involve extreme behavior - which is why a heavy percentage are of the "whack em" resolution. For every one of those there are most likely hundreds that are averted through good game management.

Are there officials with too quick a trigger that call too many T's? Sure there are - just as there are as many or more officials that don't call one when it really needs to be.

The bottom line is a T is just another type of foul predicated on the behavior of the participants. By practicing good game management, establishing good communication ground rules with the coaches and proactive officiating, we can minimize the number of situations where a T can occur, but we won't eliminate them.

And sometimes it's just your turn in the bucket....... Last season I assessed a total of 5 technicals, four of them flagrant - that's more flagrants than I have assessed in total in my entire previous officiating career.

In my first game this year, a kid hammered the shooter, picking up his 4th personal early in the 4th Qtr. After the first FT he was subbed out, and as he approached the team bench kicked a chair so hard it flew 10 feet & hit the wall, earning him an immediate T (foul #5 so he's now DQ'd and can't come back in) and the HC an indirect and loss of the coaching box. I didn't really have a choice, as there's no way you can let that kind of behavior go. By contrast, in the 10+ games I've done since, I haven't had a situation even get close.

I guess what I'm trying to say in a round about way is don't make statistical judgements based on the situations you see posted here - they simply aren't representative.

[Edited by TimTaylor on Dec 13th, 2005 at 03:26 PM]

[Rick82358]

While I had the reputation of being trigger happy over the years I have cooled down and given less T's over the last several years. I have discovered that a properly placed word or sentence can difuse a situation, the stop sign with a coach telling them you have reached the limit can limit the need to issue the T.
Having said that - I do still issue the T - but they call themselves - I would prefer that everyone in the Gym saw or heard the reason, but it doesn't always happen that way.

Last night in a blow out an eigth grader got beat to the rebound by a player in the second block who scored off the rebound and as he grabbed the ball he looked at me and said "he f@#&$$%g pushed me" WHACK yes I had to explain it to the coach he understood, it wasn't a popular call but it was right.

Or the coach in a Catholic league that jumped up and yelled Jesus Christ -Whack see you bye - every body heard that it is a zero tolerance league - popular, no - right, yes.
Will it cost me in that league because other officials do not make that call - could be - but since that is the mandate set down by the league I will enforce it. The assignor will not punish me for it and in this league the assignors, officials, and reviewers vote not the coaches and AD's which IMO is the way it should be.
I think the reason too many officials let coaches/players get away with things they would punnish their kids for, is they reffing for votes from the very people they are out their to control.
anything seem wrong with that philosophy?

[blindzebra]

What you are not including is we are stating opinions on specific situations. Situations that happened to other officials, we were not there.

So an official says this is what this coach/player did, what would you do?

We are stating an opinion on that specific act, rarely with enough context to judge what preventive measures could have been used earlier.

My partner and I have issued two T's in 16 games, 1 coach, 1 player and it was the same game.

I think we had 3 all of last season and I recall 1 the season before that, and I have said, "I'd whack em," in every thread so far on the subject.

Kind of blows up the theory that we are all T happy.

[zebraman]

There is a fine line between giving a T too fast and not enforcing proper bench decorum. T's are pretty subjective.

We have some guys in our local association who give out T's like they are Christmas candy. We have other guys who put up with way too much abuse from coaches and refuse to give a T.

I hope to be somewhere in the middle, but during a season where I work almost every night of the week, there are times when I second-guess myself after the game both ways. There have been games where I drove home wishing I had given a warranted T and other times when I felt that maybe I was a bit quick on the trigger. I'm fortunate to be working varsity level games where 95% of our coaches worry more about the game than the officials. In general, coaches at the lower levels haven't learned as well to "just coach" and let us ref.

Being a good communicator and noticing when frustration is STARTING to developer rather than when it blows over helps. Sometimes we don't get that luxury.

I have given only one T this year and it was to support my partner when he made a good call and an assistant coach slammed a clipboard to the ground.

Z

[JRutledge]

I know of an individual that gave about 16 Ts in 10 games or so. He worked on a crew and he was the only person giving the Ts for the most part. I would call that T happy. This official was approached about his conduct.

I know a lower level official (veteran) that every time he tells a story about working basketball, the story includes a Technical Foul incident. Every time he works a game he Ts someone (or it seems that way). Every time I have worked after him he talks about how he T'd the coach and a player during the same game. I would consider that T happy as well. He is giving Ts for stuff that would not even elicit a response from many officials.

Peace

[Forksref]

Originally posted by PIAA REF
After reading some of these posts about whacking people, throw her out and all the other comments it just seems that you all have a lot of T's. I just find this really uncommon. I at most might give 3 T's a year. Most of them are probably on players for unsportsmanlike things such as taunting or swearing at an opponent. You all seem to have many T's and give them frequently. Do you think that T's are given more often in different parts of the country. I hail from PA and I seldom give a T and neither does my chapter in whole (we have some that give the pretty easy). I was just curious. (But again I did start early this year, already had 1)

Just because a thread about T's shows up doesn't mean a lot of T's are given out. I give about 1-2 a season and that's it. I use the "stop sign" a lot and that works most of the time.