Easy with the T's????

[Ref Daddy]

Lot easier to type 'Whack",, "Slammo", "TTTTT" in this forum than to call one when working a game in a crowded gym.

I think the debate and conversation is good. It is a subjective call on many occasions. What's enough for me might not be for you.

Granted a Coach T isn't the hardest call to make but no doubt this call has the most lingering effects on any time remaining in the game.

No doubt the number of verbal and written claims to an aggressive T far outnumber the actual ones that are given.

[Ed Maeder]

I think a lot of people come here with their situations that a T was given because they are looking for reinforcement. I feel that if an official is a worth while official they want to know what they could have done differently to avoid giving a T. Most Techs are called to make the game better and that is what they are designed to do. If they are warranted they are a tool to help the game.

[ATXCoach]

As a coach I appreciate an official who will talk to me when it is clear we have a difference of opinion regarding a situation on the court, eventhough this is not required.

***

One of the posters above referred to a incident when a player on the bench kicked a chair in disgust. I think a justified T the way he/she described, but how do you determine when a player is upset with themselves and when they are upset with the refs when the actions aren't really directed at anyone? Does it matter? If they simply slam the chair with their fist is that less punishable/ignorable?

I have conflicting feelings on this: a) As a coach I demand my players respect every call and never question the officials - I tell them that is my job, but b)I like it when my players show a little emotion on the court. Where do you draw the line?

Thanks

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally posted by ATXCoach
a) As a coach I demand my players respect every call and never question the officials - I tell them that is my job...

YOu consider it your job to question the officials? Are you kidding me?

[ATXCoach]

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes

YOu consider it your job to question the officials? Are you kidding me?

I have made many mistakes as a coach. Sometimes the official does too. In the rarest of times I side with my players and feel there is a question to be asked, then yes it is my job over my players. I wait until the time is right, but I do like to understand calls where I don't know why it was called that way. Is that so wrong?

I think I've had 4 or 5 techs in 10 years of coaching, only one was for an event in which I lost control of myself. The rest were calculatted and intentional.

[Edited by ATXCoach on Dec 13th, 2005 at 07:53 PM]

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ATXCoach

One of the posters above referred to a incident when a player on the bench kicked a chair in disgust. I think a justified T the way he/she described, but how do you determine when a player is upset with themselves and when they are upset with the refs when the actions aren't really directed at anyone? Does it matter? If they simply slam the chair with their fist is that less punishable/ignorable?

Most experienced officials know the difference between a player being frustrated at themselves or when they're pissed off at us.

Having said that, some actions are gonna earn 'em a "T", no matter what. This includes:
- kicking chairs.
- hammering the scoring table.
- pulling their shirt out and covering their face.
- bouncing the ball hard after the play is over so that the ball goes higher than their head.
- tossing the ball down court or out-of-bounds.
- any profanity/obscenity that can be be heard by the crowd.

Those are all pretty much automatic "T"s with most officials, Coach.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Rick82358
While I had the reputation of being trigger happy over the years I have cooled down and given less T's over the last several years.

{Grammar Nazi ON)

No - you've given fewer T's

(Grammar Nazi OFF)


Not really sure where I am on the scale. I gave out a ton while working intramurals, but chalked it up to the nature of the beast. Just starting my "real" basketball season, so we'll see how I am this year.

For the record, in football I had 7 (give or take) USC flags this season. Two were ejections for fighting, one was on a player for taunting (in the same game that had the 2 ejections), 1 was a chain crew/coaching staff ejection, and 3 were against actual coaches. All of the coaching USC's were in Youth football . . .

[JohnBark]

no way, not me. tonight's JV boys game. Team B down by 15, 6 minutes to go and the crowd is now fillng in for the varsity game which follows. i call a foul on A1. B1 is going to the line for 2 shots. i'm T. Team B's assistant is standing giving instuctions to B2. before the ball is at the disposal of B1 for the 1st of 2 shots. i tell the assistant to have a sit. he just looks at me. i, once again, tell him to have a seat. he does and says, "get your head in the game then" to me. of course the gym is dead quiet by now. WHACK!

me trigger happy. no way! that was the easiest call i had all night. didn't want to give him the T, especially since Team B down and really didn't have a chance to win the game. but, he made the call for me! WHACK!!!



[Edited by JohnBark on Dec 14th, 2005 at 09:43 AM]

[ChuckElias]

I'll agree with the folks who say that it varies from season to season or game to game. Last year, I was a T-magnet in the first third of the season and even posted some of the situations on the forum. This year, through 10 games or so, I have 2 T's; both for hanging on the rim. One was a missed dunk and swing. The second was a 2-hand alley-oop dunk. After the dunk, the kid hung with one hand, turned around and pointed to his point guard with his other hand to say "nice pass".

I give very few T's to coaches, even in my T-magnet seasons. They're usually for trash-talk or players complaining.

[JRutledge]

This month's issue of Referee Magazine, there is an article called, "What Lead Officials Do Better than the Rest." The article interviewed Joe Crawford from the NBA and Ed Hochuli from the NFL. The article talks about how easy it is to give a T or throw a flag. They article said it takes much more skill to understand the emotion of the game and talk to players through a situation, then take action if need be. Hochuli said it takes guts to walk away when players get emotional. I personally think there are officials that go looking for Ts and confrontation. This is why they call Ts in many situations where other officials might address the situations in another way.

Peace

[FrankHtown]

I had a crappy T last night. Girl's Varsity. Decent level of play. First three minutes of the game. Team A inbounding on side line right by scorer's table. Team B player, defending the throw in, jumps at least 8 inches out of bounds, towards the thrower. I stop play, issue a delay warning against Team A. Bounce the ball to A for throw-in. B player...second jump is out of bounds, in the thrower's face...right after her coach had told her to get back. I called the T. Just as a review for all, it counts as a Team Technical,..goes against team foul count, but not assessed to a player (my partners said it should count towards player...we told both coaches we would confirm at half time, and adjust if necessary).

At a break, my partners said that's one T you probably should ignore, and I said...you know...that is a crummy way to get a T, and if it was on the far side of the court, I might have been a little more patient, but being right in front of the scorer's table, with both coaches having a clear view of the delay warning, and the subsequent violation, how could I maintain any credibility if I let it slide.

I do have to mention, however, not one defender for either team got in a thrower's face after that.

[FrankHtown]

I stop play, issue a delay warning against Team A.***

Typo...of course, Team B got the warning

[Ref Daddy]

Had same situation last week. My player reached over and slapped the ball. By the book - T without warning.

No objections from crew or bench.

It is a "crappy way" to get a T but .... its in the rule book. I've felt it was always "misplaced" by calling it a delay of game.

Seems its a rule looking for a home.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by FrankHtown
I had a crappy T last night. Girl's Varsity. Decent level of play. First three minutes of the game. Team A inbounding on side line right by scorer's table. Team B player, defending the throw in, jumps at least 8 inches out of bounds, towards the thrower. I stop play, issue a delay warning against Team A. Bounce the ball to A for throw-in. B player...second jump is out of bounds, in the thrower's face...right after her coach had told her to get back. I called the T. Just as a review for all, it counts as a Team Technical,..goes against team foul count, but not assessed to a player (my partners said it should count towards player...we told both coaches we would confirm at half time, and adjust if necessary).

At a break, my partners said that's one T you probably should ignore, and I said...you know...that is a crummy way to get a T, and if it was on the far side of the court, I might have been a little more patient, but being right in front of the scorer's table, with both coaches having a clear view of the delay warning, and the subsequent violation, how could I maintain any credibility if I let it slide.

Can't agree with that philosophy either. That ain't a crappy "T" at all imo. If the defender gained any kind of an advantage on the first throw-in by goin OOB, then a warning is the proper and righteous call. If the defender subsequently completely ignores your warning and does it again, then that defender deserves the "T" for just being plain (or plane) stoopid. She just basically said "Screw you, ref. I'm gonna do what I want". It doesn't matter what side of the court it happened on either. Whether a coach can see a call should never, ever be a factor in whether that call should be made or not.

Your partners are just looking for a reason not to call a "T" imo. That's wrong.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by FrankHtown
I had a crappy T last night. Girl's Varsity. Decent level of play. First three minutes of the game. Team A inbounding on side line right by scorer's table. Team B player, defending the throw in, jumps at least 8 inches out of bounds, towards the thrower. I stop play, issue a delay warning against Team A. Bounce the ball to A for throw-in. B player...second jump is out of bounds, in the thrower's face...right after her coach had told her to get back. I called the T. Just as a review for all, it counts as a Team Technical,..goes against team foul count, but not assessed to a player (my partners said it should count towards player...we told both coaches we would confirm at half time, and adjust if necessary).

At a break, my partners said that's one T you probably should ignore, and I said...you know...that is a crummy way to get a T, and if it was on the far side of the court, I might have been a little more patient, but being right in front of the scorer's table, with both coaches having a clear view of the delay warning, and the subsequent violation, how could I maintain any credibility if I let it slide.

I do have to mention, however, not one defender for either team got in a thrower's face after that.

No problem with that T Frank, but just a quick question. Before giving the ball to team A for the throw-in after the warning, did you specifically address player B1? I know you went to the table and gave a warning, but it sounds like B1 doesn't have the rule knowledge that we like varsity players to have. I think if you had said, "hey #32, you can't break this plane. If you do it again it will be a technical foul and the other team will get two free throws," it may have prevented it.

Z