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Old Sat Dec 06, 2003, 01:40am
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Something kinna bothered me last night. A big time DI official showed up wearingh is NCAA Official windbreaker making comments about how "its great to see they put me at a level I can call" then dropping credentials about where he called last night (Big DI school) and all that ohter stuff.... He was assigned to the 7th grade gym, my partner the 8th. While I wanted to work the game with him as he's obviously a somebody, his attitude really turned me off about him. I went itno the 7th grade gym at half time and was dissappointed to see his mechanics.... not going all the way under at lead... counts were "eh who cares" kinna counts... I hope that I don't get that way if I start to move up... I dunno what I'm really getting at... but do some people really get that mentality. Theres this one guy in our assc. He's been calling some College ball, but only works sub-varsity and his college schedule. I admire that about him. One of the assignor, top rated offical in our area, great DI official, but he's the most humble person I've ever met. To me the first 2 min you meet someeone is where you make you biggest impression... he made a bad impression on me last night. Something I'll never forget about him. I enjoy the lower level ball, I enjoy Freshman, and middle school... BUt i want to move up. I'm calling a 1 man 5 year co-ed game tommorow morning at 8 oclock for a rec league.... but I'm calling the last game of a freshman girls tourny tommorow afternoon at 3. But I'm back here at a rec leage at 6PM for a 9-10 year old boys game. I'm trying to stay intouch with my roots, because without the lower level stuff, you'll never move up because you wont see wierd plays. Wanna test your rules, force yourself to work on mechanics... i got a league for ya... game management with a lousy partner? yep... I think its the past 3 years that have shaped me the best to being the offical I am today.
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Old Sat Dec 06, 2003, 01:16pm
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I just wanted to comment

This is my first year reffing- I feel very confident making calls but I know that I lack mechanics and am working on it very hard.
My first two games I got to ref I did 7th and 8th grade and I got to work w/ a ref who really didn't care.
It kinda made me think about reffing again.
Then my third game the other refs backed out and I got to ref w/ a proven varsity ref. I learned so much in one night of reffing. and enjoyed it so much and have enjoyed reffing ever since.

For all us newer refs - I would like to thank all the experienced refs for working w/ us- it makes reffing more enjoyabe and it made me want to try to get better so I can ref at higher levels.

One recommendation that experienced refs try to get games early in the season w/ new refs to help them become better officials

just some comments
thanks all
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Old Sun Dec 07, 2003, 12:15pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ace
Something kinna bothered me last night. A big time DI official showed up wearingh is NCAA Official windbreaker making comments about how "its great to see they put me at a level I can call" then dropping credentials about where he called last night (Big DI school) and all that ohter stuff.... He was assigned to the 7th grade gym, my partner the 8th. While I wanted to work the game with him as he's obviously a somebody, his attitude really turned me off about him. I went itno the 7th grade gym at half time and was dissappointed to see his mechanics.... not going all the way under at lead... counts were "eh who cares" kinna counts...
Ok, I was hesitant to address this, but I guess I will. I have two comments. First, relax about the guy's mechanics. Mechanics are very important for getting noticed. If you call a good game and have great mechanics, you have a HUGE advantage over a guy who calls a good game but has lousy mechanics. So mechanics are important. But once you reach your peak level, your mechanics become much less important. Mechanics (signals) do almost nothing to help you call a good game. Almost nothing. They're good for communicating to your partner and the table. But your signals have no impact on the calls you make.

But how often do you see GREAT officials on TV who have miserable mechanics? A lot. Why is that? B/c the mechanics are not nearly as important at that level. The important thing is your calls. If you get the calls right, then who really cares about which hand you pointed with?

Please understand that I say this as an official who is VERY mechanically sound. I pride myself on my mechanics, and they have helped to get me noticed. I understand that my signals don't really help me call my game, but I still need them to get attention b/c I'm still hoping to move up to higher levels.

Second comment. I am not "too good" to do certain games. However, there are some games that I would just as soon not do, if another competant official is available. As an example, last year I worked a Division 3 HS girls varsity game. (In MA, Division 3 is the division containing the smallest schools.) The halftime score of this VARSITY game was 12-2.

Now in all seriousness, why was I on that game? There were other officials available who could have done that game, who could have done a very good job, and who would have been very proud to have worked a varsity game. Instead, I did it, and it was a ho-hum experience.

Now, once an official has accepted a game, s/he must conduct himself or herself as if that game were the most important game of the night. And I did that. I hustled, I was always in position, I always used my proper signals and HS mechanics. I called a great game. But that game did not need me.

So this year I told my assignor that I would not accept any HS girls games below the Division 1 level. Why? Because I'm too good for them? No. Because I feel that other officials will be better served by working those games than I would be.

I hope that doesn't make me sound arrogant, but I wanted you to see the other side of the picture. If this big-time official came in and did a crummy job, then that's wrong. He should've treated it more seriously. But you also have to understand that it takes much less effort for him to call that game well than it does for a less-experienced official to call that game well.
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Old Sun Dec 07, 2003, 02:00pm
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ACE

ACE

Some observations from an old-timer. I have worked basketball off and on for 30 years. My job has interrupted my officiating career, but that's ok. I also have worked football off and on for 25 years. I happen to like FB better because of the teamwork in our crews and just being outdoors.

Moving up is not all it is cracked up to be. Work at the level at which you feel most comfortable. That level might change. Our FB crew had the opportunity to move up to the college level and we did it for 3 years. Due to changes in the geographics of the league because of restructuring with another league, they no longer needed a crew from our area. It was a good experience, but as I look back, I realize that I enjoy HS games better. It's Friday night, you have young kids and you can be a 'teacher' as well as an official when working with young kids. College required too much travel and it just wasn't as enjoyable. The coaches are crazier and I found it wasn't nearly much fun as HS. This year I did some JHS as well and worked with younger officials.

I do this because I like it and I know there is a need for officials at all levels. I also like to help new officials. We lose too many officials after they get started because they don't get the help needed and then they got in tough situations and we all know how rough coaches and fans can be if you screw up. They get burned and quit.

Last night I worked my first basketball in over 8 years. I was fortunate enough to work a HS scrimmage with two other guys and I kept asking questions about mechanics and rules. It's amazing how things change and I was relieved to get some help. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Even old dogs can learn new tricks.

Remember, whatever level you are working, it is like the "Final Four" to those kiids!

Have a great season and hang in there. It only gets better!
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Old Sun Dec 07, 2003, 02:13pm
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Lightbulb Officiating is a job with different requirements.

Officiating is about what we enjoy, not what we have to do. When an official gets to a certain level, it is not uncommon for that official to not be enthusiastic to do lower level games. For one, the pay is not the same. The respect given is not the same and the attitude of the coaches and fans are not quite the same. If we are going to be offended because the official that we are working with, did a D1 game the night before, then what else is going to offend us. Maybe that is his experience and like many of us, we like to talk about our experiences. For one I am not at the D1 level, but I could not talk to you about any JH games I have done in the past few years. So when I do one next week, all I can talk about is the varsity tournaments and the big games I have had, when asked. I will be working with an varsity assignor, but the talk will not be about the "big time JH matchup" we had last week.

Now I was not there, but is seems that many here speak of guys that talk about doing levels that many us will never get to, and we seem to take issue with that. D1 Officials are not going to change their mechanics, to satisfy the "lower level officials." They are doing what they are confrontable with and unless the NF changes many of their mechanics to fall in line with the NCAA, they are going to stick what works for them.

I think also the final point should be made on this topic, is that everyone cannot do JH thru the NBA every week. If I even try to do JH, HS and college games in a week, I will never be able to go to work. At this point of my career, it is almost impossible for me and others that do a lot of varsity ball to do any JH games. Many cannot get off at work in time to work those games or we have other games that we would rather do that same day. Even the HS varsity game and a D3 college game are on the same nights. You cannot do both. The travel for the college game is usually longer and the HS games are less pay. And I know many officials that would rather do the college game with 1/3 of the crowd and more pay than a HS varsity game with 2000 more fans and half the pay.

I think younger officials need to try to take the opportunity to learn from officials like this, then getting upset over what level they did the night before. Because if that is an issue, then maybe they should not talk about anything.

Peace
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Old Mon Dec 08, 2003, 02:02am
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I find this discussion extremely interesting, because I see myself in there somewhere.

I am only scheduled to work varsity HS and above this season. I will work some youth games on Saturday mornings, but only because these are people I like working for -- I certainly don't look forward to the basketball itself.

For me, the excitement of working sports is the challenge it gives me. I am simply not challenged working JH basketball and therefore I do not enjoy it. When one would much rather be home than working a game, it is better that someone else works it. There are levels of baseball I feel the same way about.

Would I look nonchalant working a JH game? Probably. My mechanics are pretty sharp, but I do probably look quite a bit more relaxed than your typical JH official. Actually, I would probably get in more trouble because I would be trying to apply a varsity level of advantage/disadvantage and allowing quite a bit more contact than is customary at that level.

I think the worse thing you can do, Ace, is pass judgement on this D-I official. I have no idea why a D-I official is even working a JH game, but I do know that he can probably call a decent game even if he isn't going all the way under as lead. The experience does help.
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Old Mon Dec 08, 2003, 08:34am
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To good for lower

Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
I find this discussion extremely interesting, because I see myself in there somewhere.

I am only scheduled to work varsity HS and above this season. I will work some youth games on Saturday mornings, but only because these are people I like working for -- I certainly don't look forward to the basketball itself.

For me, the excitement of working sports is the challenge it gives me. I am simply not challenged working JH basketball and therefore I do not enjoy it. When one would much rather be home than working a game, it is better that someone else works it. There are levels of baseball I feel the same way about.

Would I look nonchalant working a JH game? Probably. My mechanics are pretty sharp, but I do probably look quite a bit more relaxed than your typical JH official. Actually, I would probably get in more trouble because I would be trying to apply a varsity level of advantage/disadvantage and allowing quite a bit more contact than is customary at that level.

I think the worse thing you can do, Ace, is pass judgement on this D-I official. I have no idea why a D-I official is even working a JH game, but I do know that he can probably call a decent game even if he isn't going all the way under as lead. The experience does help.
All you guys have great comments, this is my fourteenth season during HS ball. I work JH games because it give me a chance to practice my signals. And, GOD KNOWS I need the exercise, but mostly because I don't want to ever forget the coaches and schools who called on me to help them when nobody else would give me a chance. So, even now when I do my blackout dates, the Varsity games are first, and JH is second.
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Old Mon Dec 08, 2003, 09:17am
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I to am new to the biz ( in my third year) and I have found it to be very rewarding working with the vets out there. Found only a couple who's egos blinded there ability to teach. One needs to remember to take there advice as constructive critizism and not the oppertunity to put down you as the new guy. Listen to what there saying, they've been there.
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Old Mon Dec 08, 2003, 09:43am
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Quote:
Originally posted by ace
...dissappointed to see his mechanics.... not going all the way under at lead... .
What do you mean, ace?
mick
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Old Mon Dec 08, 2003, 09:54am
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Agree 100% with Tmeup.

It speaks very well of a profession when those experienced in it are generous towards those just starting out. And I think officiating is that way, for the most part. As a first year HS official working JV games, I really appreciate the chance to work with a veteran. And the first words out of my mouth after the game are, "Thanks for your patience out there."

As for mechanics, I guess I don't understand why some officials don't use the proper signals for the level they are working. Aren't correct signals as appropriate as correct application of the rules? I'm not being facetious here, just genuinely curious.

Thanks,

Matt
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Old Mon Dec 08, 2003, 10:31am
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Quote:
Originally posted by SoFL_Rookie
Aren't correct signals as appropriate as correct application of the rules? I'm not being facetious here, just genuinely curious.
Yes, Rook, they are just as appropriate; but they're not as important.
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Old Mon Dec 08, 2003, 10:41am
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias

...So this year I told my assignor that I would not accept any HS girls games below the Division 1 level. Why? Because I'm too good for them? No. Because I feel that other officials will be better served by working those games than I would be.

I hope that doesn't make me sound arrogant, but I wanted you to see the other side of the picture.
Chuck your points are right on and I am certain you are sincere in wanting to give others the opportunity to work Varsity games. However there are those officials that want, and are striving, and feel they are worthy to work the bigger level games. They may very well not be ready, but think they are. And they may see your unwillingness to work lower games as YOU SELECTING THE BIGGER GAMES FOR YOURSELF.

We have a few officials in our association that refuse to work girls games (same assigner for boys and girls and JH). Most are very good officials and they work just as many games as anyone else. Because they work only boys, the other officials are left with a greater quantity of girls and an occasional lower level boys game. They obviously feel slighted.

I myself, have just let the assigner make the decisions and have not placed any of my own personal restrictions. He knows who I'm compatible with and what level of games are appropriate for me... of course I feel slighted at times. (I work with him tomorrow for an upper level Varsity game and then I work a mid-level JV and a V game split on Wednesday, and a lowest level JV/V game split on Friday - all five girl's games). Of course I wish they were all the higher level and some of them boys games... oh well, it is still five games.

Happy days!
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Old Mon Dec 08, 2003, 11:07am
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Quote:
Originally posted by ace
[B]Something kinna bothered me last night. A big time DI official showed up wearingh is NCAA Official windbreaker making comments about how "its great to see they put me at a level I can call" then dropping credentials about where he called last night (Big DI school) and all that ohter stuff.... what I'm really getting at, do some people really get that mentality? Theres this one guy in our assc. He's been calling some College ball, but only works sub-varsity and his college schedule. I admire that about him. One of the assignor, top rated offical in our area, great DI official, but he's the most humble person I've ever met. [B]
Ace --

I think there's a right way and an arrogant way to handle the situation this D1 ref was in. He handled it the wrong way. He's worried about what people will think if he's working "just" a 7th grade rec game. So he drops hints about all the other games he's done that are so much more important.

I've been told that there comes a point in your move up the ladder where you don't do much rec anymore because it hinders your higher level skills. But I've also seen some very high level refs (D2, D1) around here do an occasional rec league game to help out a friend for some reason. The ones I know knuckle under and do a great job, don't let on how important they are, and give a good word to the rookie they are working with. Find someone with that attitude in your area, and watch them. You'll see what you want to emulate as you move up yourself.
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Old Mon Dec 08, 2003, 02:36pm
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Lightbulb This is a hobby.

I think people need to understand that this is first and foremost just a hobby. I consider it a job on many levels, because of the time and energy that I have to put into officiating on and off the court or field. But at the end of the day it is just a hobby that I can make some money doing. When it stops becoming something I do not enjoy, it is time to quit. There is no obligation to do any level and do it the way that everyone feels you should. I would never expect an official that is mostly doing a D1 schedule, to not talk about it or to all of a sudden stop doing mechanics that reflect that. It is a very hard adjustment to keep going back and forth with your mechanics. The rules are different, the philosophies are different and the simple expectations are different. I think we need to keep some things in perspective here. When I get my schedule, I give my open or closed dates to the people I want to give it to. And just like many others, I do not except games of levels I have no desire to do, until most if not all my schedule is in from the people that I have the most interest in doing their conferences.

It is human nature that when you started somewhere, to not really get excited about doing things that you had to do to move up. It does not mean you will never want to go back from time to time, but you do not want to make it a habit.

I do not know about you, but if I was doing D1 games. Considering that I probably would make anywhere from $500-$1500 for one game, probably have security and a decent locker room to shower and get plenty to drink, there might be thousands in attendence at the game. If I do enough of those games in a week, I have enough money to put my kids through school for the year or pay for my house. And if I am getting off of work to do a D1 game, I might be able to make as much money as I do at my regular job (if I need one). You have coaches at the D1 that are not yelling "moving screen" every two trips down the floor. You can bearly hear any specific fans and their comments. Then to be used to that, then officiate for hundereds of percent lower in pay. You might be lucky if you have a locker room, probably an office to get dressed in, where the female trainer is in and out of the office to get supplies, and then you will have a coach that is complaining all game, you have not called a single "reach" all night. Maybe it is me, but I know where I would rather be.

Peace
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Old Mon Dec 08, 2003, 04:18pm
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Lightbulb

I too would like to know why the signals being properly used not a big deal? I've seen refs use signals that I wonder what book they got them from. Such as the over the back call... they look like a monkey hanging from a branch on the call to the bench. Or how about the "slid the hip over" to indicat a block call. Lots of discussion on looks from shiny shoes to no belted pants as far as profesionalism so how about proper signals.
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