Clock Start Error--Part IV (Part II, III and etc.)

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You cannot count a try which was released after the period-ending horn. The ball is dead. There are clear rules which tell us those things.

There are, and following the rules wont get you in trouble, but also for any assignor I have worked with using common sense as well depending on the situation with supporting evidence and circumstances they have and always will support such decisions.

Either way you can or cannot go wrong. I have found the really good officials know when to use such judgement and are "right" at the right time.

[ilyazhito]

The horn sounded prematurely, thus I would treat it as an inadvertent horn. An inadvertent horn is to be ignored, unless participants are distracted by it. This may be the reason why deecee chose to ignore the horn and score the goal if 2.5 was the proper time on the game clock.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

The horn sounded prematurely, thus I would treat it as an inadvertent horn.

The horn didn't sound prematurely, the clock started prematurely. The horn sounded exactly when it was supposed to, at 00:00.00 on the game clock.

I do understand your inadvertent horn situation, a situation we occasionally see when the horn sounds incorrectly during a live ball, clock running situation. If the players don't seem too distracted we will yell "play on", or "play ball". If the horn impacts the players we will sound our whistles and reset.

I'm not sure that this thread is the same situation.

1-14: … the audible timer’s signal shall indicate that time has expired.

5-6-2: Each quarter or extra period ends when the signal illuminates
or sounds indicating time has expired, as in 1-14.

There are exceptions to 5-6-2, but none of them are relevant to this situation.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

The horn sounded prematurely, thus I would treat it as an inadvertent horn. An inadvertent horn is to be ignored, unless participants are distracted by it. This may be the reason why deecee chose to ignore the horn and score the goal if 2.5 was the proper time on the game clock.

It was not an inadvertent horn. It was clearly the signal to end the period, albeit prematurely. That doesn’t matter. The ball is still dead when the period ending horn sounds indicating that the game clock has expired, unless a try is in flight.
That is what we have here happening here. The referee may correct the timing error, but the goal simply cannot be scored.

What if the player catching the ball drives to the hoop instead of immediately shooting? Let’s say the horn sounds and then he takes two dribbles while moving into the lane and subsequently puts the ball into the basket. Are you going to count that? The defense may not even try to defend. If your ruling does not work for that situation, then it cannot work for the less extreme case either. How to handle a timing error near the end of a period has ONE solution only. It must cover all cases. This is not a 2-3 situation. You can’t just make whatever decision you want. You need to adhere to the rules.

[Nevadaref]

Additionally, what if an official sounds his whistle upon hearing the horn?

[BillyMac]

... that's why we invited you.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You can’t just make whatever decision you want. You need to adhere to the rules.

But that takes all the fun (and power) out of being a basketball official.

[ilyazhito]

I was trying to explain why deecee proposed his unusual solution, and using the rules to justify it. Realistically, at least by rule, that solution is impossible, leaving the only valid solution as subtracting time (0.3 seconds, since the game clock started and immediately stopped) from the correct time of 2.5 seconds. 2.2 seconds should be enough for a catch and shoot situation.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It was not an inadvertent horn. It was clearly the signal to end the period, albeit prematurely.

Since you can't see the clock, I'm not sure how you can know this. It's possible (though unlikely) the timer hit the horn button instead of the start clock button.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by youngump

It's possible the timer hit the horn button instead of the start clock button.

[Rich1]

Originally Posted by deecee

There are, and following the rules wont get you in trouble, but also for any assignor I have worked with using common sense as well depending on the situation with supporting evidence and circumstances they have and always will support such decisions.

Either way you can or cannot go wrong. I have found the really good officials know when to use such judgement and are "right" at the right time.

It has always been drilled in my head that when you apply the rules as written then the assignor has no choice but to back you up. Using common sense can get you out of a jam at certain points of the game, but in the last seconds when your decision will determine who wins and who loses I would go with the letter of the law every time.