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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 16, 2004, 11:13am
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Just loking for some feedback here guys.

Does your state mandate the NFHS Part 1 test in order for you to work high school baseball games?

Is the NFHS Part 2 test given in your state? If so, is it mandated or used for promotion or post season assignments?

In Illinois the Part 1 test is open book and issued with rule books and season info. We have a few weeks to return it or we can take it online and it is scored immediately. (Although, you won't know which ones are incorrect until the testing phase concludes - then an answer key is posted.) It also serves as one element of ranking for post season assignments. (In Illinois, the post season is scheduled by the IHSA) The Part 2 test is used for promotion to the next level, although all officials are encouraged to take it as a refresher or to hone their skills.

Please provide your home state when giving your thoughts.
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 16, 2004, 11:24am
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Who does that?

Who encourages anyone to take the Part 2 Exam as a refresher in Illinois?

You cannot get a copy of the Part 2 Exam unless you know someone that took it. Or you can buy the Athletic Rules Study CD from the previous year.

Peace
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 16, 2004, 11:48am
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Michigan
No NFHS test required.
...Not even suggested.
[but they do provide a link to this site.]
mick

  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 16, 2004, 11:53am
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You should really read your Officials Handbook and online services better.

For the past twenty years, the IHSA has encouraged all officials to apply for the test and take it. About five years ago, the IHSA began scheduling the Part 2 test and administering it at set locations. They required pre-registering and provided a proctor. Prior to that, the tests could be administered by any recognized organization or assignor. Our group administered the test for years as part of our training program. Again, any official can register for the test and if the testing site has space, you will be allowed to take it. You may not be eligible for promotion, but they have always encouraged continuing education in the form of this test. I know of several certfied Officials that take the Part 2 test every year. The only thing it costs them is an evening in a local high school.
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 16, 2004, 12:21pm
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Not sure all areas of Idaho do the same thing. District VI (Idaho Falls) uses the Part I as a tune up. It is handed out with the new rulebooks and everyone pretty much either does it on their own (open book) or just shows up at a subsequent meeting and receives the answers and maybe reviews some of it later.

Part II is a State requirement. A score of 80% is required to work varsity contests. However,... and this varies from year to year, the Part II is taken either individually or as small groups (basically your choice). Either set down with your buddies and your open books and all 'cheat' together for your community answers or be a loner and set down by yourself. Alone, you still have the option of using the books. I've found that once I look-up an answer for a single question, I get into a kind of mode where I want to look-up every answer... "How many outs per inning?" "I know I've seen that in here somewhere... thumb, thumb, thumb." Takes forever to justify every answer. It's a lot easier to forget about trying to find a rule reference for every answer.

I'm sure I look-up a dozen of the questions and in general it is in response to someone's question and me trying to justify my answer. I know the rules well enough to score above 80 without flipping the cover, but I generally find myself looking-up a few answers and getting an upper 90's score.

We take the Part II for baseball and fastpitch softball on the same evening. So, if you work both sports, it can mean a long evening of test taking... and a lot of thumbing if you get into that look-up mode.

Some years we have been required to take the tests as closed book. Things go faster then.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 16, 2004, 12:21pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Interesting. I remember early in my career I tried to apply to take the exam and I was told I was not eligible to take it. They sent me a letter to tell me I could not take the test and had to wait until my anniversary date had come up.

Funny, I have never heard that come out of the mouth of Dave Gannaway or anyone talk about people not going for promotion can take it. Not at the IHSA Delegate's Meeting or any time I have heard Dave, Kurt or Anthony speak. Or better yet, when I talked to Judy in person she never made mention of that either. I guess you have the inside track. Because the only encouragement I have ever read are those that are up for promotion to take the exam.

BTW, it has been longer than 5 years.

Peace
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 16, 2004, 01:17pm
EMD EMD is offline
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Here in the pretty state of Missouri:

Part I and II are mandatory (with passing score)1st yr working NFHS, there after you must take Part II each year and atend a mandatory rules meeting that general takes 4 hours. You must also prove you attended by signing an attendance card in the pressence of a state brd member.

Unless you allow your membership to laspe you should never take Part I again.

The state will (as I understand it) request our Association to send umpires to state championship games. The Assco. will assign district and other local playoff games based on our ranking, availibility, performance during the season, and desire. It has some issue if you are overlooked, however, it is a good system.


As an aside: many umpires just want HS to end so we can move onto the Spring wood bat tournements. That is when summer starts!
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 16, 2004, 02:15pm
Gee Gee is offline
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Here in the BLUE state of Massachusetts there is no such thing as NFHS rules. Thank Gawd. G.
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 16, 2004, 02:32pm
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Gee,
Which rules govern baseball in Massachusetts?
If it is OBR, do they also have safety rules in place?

Grazi!
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 16, 2004, 02:39pm
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Rut, you are partially correct.

1) The IHSA changed the language of the recent handbook. For many years it recommended that officials should take the Part II test as often as possible. In past books, this was included in the “How to become a better Official” section. It has also been part of the IACAO curriculum for man years.
It was removed from the book, but remained in the packet we received last January.

2) The IHSA now runs the Part II test and requires registration. It is provided at sites (available on-line) and is managed on a space available basis. In other words, if they have twenty five officials requesting promotion, they will be frugal in allowing others to take the test for practice. It costs them money to offer the test, after all.

3) The Part I and II tests are important gauges of baseball knowledge. After a few months in hibernation, the umpire can count on having to crack open the rule and case books in order to complete the test. The Part II proves that you can perform under pressure and do it better than the rest. If you look at the number of Certified umpires in Illinois (compared to the total number of licensed umpires) you will see how special this achievement really is.

I like the old system that allowed groups to administer the Part II test. More people took it and the old tests circulated for others to study the next year. Since it was given on only one day, we had very little risk of the answers leaking out. It six years ago, but the test is still given statewide (by the IHSA) on the same day. If you cannot make it to one of their sites, you have to be given special permission to take it at their headquarters.

We've covered this before. It appears that only a couple of states don't use the tests in some capacity. The majority use them for annual or post season eligibility, promotion or rating criteria.
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 16, 2004, 03:02pm
Gee Gee is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Gee,
Which rules govern baseball in Massachusetts?
If it is OBR, do they also have safety rules in place?

Grazi!
We use OBR with the Slide or Avoid and the NFHS Bat restrictions (-3) but we don't check unless an opposing coach brings it to our attention. A lot of the Higher Divisions are going to Wood.

We also have Strikes in place of ejections for Managers and coaches. A warning is Strike one and the second one he is gone but we still have the option of running him the first time so it hasn't changed much. The problem is that we now have to write up all Strikes, before it was just for EJ's.
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 16, 2004, 03:17pm
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I know that Fed is a pain, but that sounds crazy.
Our unsportsmanlike conduct ejections require written reports, as well.

You said that a Strike is given to coaches as a warning (1st offense). What is his team is on defense? Can multiple coaches receive multiple warnings?
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 16, 2004, 04:51pm
Gee Gee is offline
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Yes, you can warn (strike) multiple coaches as each one gets a freebee before the heave. If the infraction is severe, like cussing or bumping etc. you can run him the first time.


Actually it is handled just like before except for the write up. Before if a coach or mgr acted up you would warn him, same thing now but it's a strike and you have to write it up. If the coach continued you would ej him, same now with another report.

The only change is the first write-up.

Up here there are very few Ej's, I've only run one mgr in all my years and that was a long time ago. These guys are well controlled and understand the ramifications if they get run. I know all of them and they all know me. Boring.
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 16, 2004, 07:01pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Rut, you are partially correct.

1) The IHSA changed the language of the recent handbook. For many years it recommended that officials should take the Part II test as often as possible. In past books, this was included in the “How to become a better Official” section. It has also been part of the IACAO curriculum for man years.
It was removed from the book, but remained in the packet we received last January.
Well it does not know and has not since they changed the Part 2 Exam administration.

Quote:
Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
2) The IHSA now runs the Part II test and requires registration. It is provided at sites (available on-line) and is managed on a space available basis. In other words, if they have twenty five officials requesting promotion, they will be frugal in allowing others to take the test for practice. It costs them money to offer the test, after all.
The test is not available on-line. Only the Part 1 Exam is available online. They might tell you what you received on the test, but you cannot take this test online.

Quote:
Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
3) The Part I and II tests are important gauges of baseball knowledge. After a few months in hibernation, the umpire can count on having to crack open the rule and case books in order to complete the test. The Part II proves that you can perform under pressure and do it better than the rest. If you look at the number of Certified umpires in Illinois (compared to the total number of licensed umpires) you will see how special this achievement really is.
That is your opinion. That is not the shared opinion of many umpires or officials in many sports. Because what I read is not about what I see and how I have to react. If you feel it is, you have that right to fell that way. I disagree. What else is new?

Quote:
Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
I like the old system that allowed groups to administer the Part II test. More people took it and the old tests circulated for others to study the next year. Since it was given on only one day, we had very little risk of the answers leaking out. It six years ago, but the test is still given statewide (by the IHSA) on the same day. If you cannot make it to one of their sites, you have to be given special permission to take it at their headquarters.
You want to talk about cheating? Cheating was one of the reasons they changed the process of this test all together. Associations would administer the test and literally the administrators would give the answers to the actual answer key and let people pass the test. Not just the answers, the answer key.

Quote:
Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
We've covered this before. It appears that only a couple of states don't use the tests in some capacity. The majority use them for annual or post season eligibility, promotion or rating criteria.
I realize they might use one or the other. But you have been on a crusade to call everyone a cheater and you do not know which states use the Part 1 Exam at all. I know of states that make up their own test as well. If someone uses the test to personally check their answers to this test, which is given out for study purposes only, you have no right to call them cheaters without know the process in which they use the test. I guess you have the right to say anything you like, but you would be wrong. But that has never stopped you before.

Peace
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 17, 2004, 09:11am
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Well,

In Oregon, Part 1 is included in your packet as a "sample test" to practice for later testing.

We then take Part 2 (closed book) as our final exam. You must pass with a score of 75% to work varsity games -- an offical must score 90% or above to be able to work state playoff games.

Tee
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