Fellow ref riding crew as spectator

[udbrky]

How well can you talk with a whistle in your mouth? "I'm not going to come to your next game and act like this. I expect you to extend the same courtesy."

If he won't remedy his actions, I'd mention it to your assignor. Fans/coaches/players know who we are. You act like that, and it sets an example that no official should ever set.

This is one area where it's nice to become friends with more experienced officials in your crews. It helps learn how to deal with this imo.

Had a similar situation this summer.

Worked a couple baseball games with a coach that made it known he's an umpire and would argue calls here and there - not enough to warrant an EJ, but enough to annoy you.

Then this fall, I worked with him. When I put it together who he was, I was nervous, I didn't know if he would be a jerk on the field, try to step on my calls or what. Turned out to be a different guy.

Talked to others, he's just like that when he coaches - just a real ******* who argues a bunch, and he does it because he likes it.

[Hawkeyes]

I'd talk to him, the school AD and your association person responsible for member conduct.
If this parent/official did this to you, he's doing it or will do it to another official; and the AD needs to have a heads up for the next time... and make him sit in the stands.
When you see the parent/official: "What did you think of my game the other night? Any feedback?" Then ask him, can I give you some feedback?: Don't stand near the court and chirp at the officials. I'm sure the association expects more from a veteran official like yourself and I won't allow you to do that during my games in the future.
Then do your millennial thing: drop the mic!

[BlueDevilRef]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I would have told him "I've seen you officiate, I really don't think you should be talking"

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

And the award for best post of the year goes to.......

BNR for this post!!!!!!

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Adam

I hold officials to a higher standard, so your question doesn't matter to me.

In the game, if he's even the slightest distraction, his kid can tell him all about the game later.

As soon as that game is over, I'm sending an email to the assigner and president of the association. This is the most inappropriate behavior imaginable for an official, even if he's not getting obscene. The entire event is unacceptable for a "respected official" and he needs to be corrected.

Frankly, my inclination is to have him escorted out and he and I can have a sit-down with the assigner if need-be.

Why do you hold officials to a higher standard? The only standard we should be held to is can we adjudicate the games we work impartially, and in respect to the rules yes the standard is higher.

As for an official that acts as a fan, I would treat them as such. I would most likely have a smart a$$ remark like BNR had. But I don't hold anyone to any higher standards than just do your job. I'm not going to treat him any different because hes a "ref". At that moment he's a fan. If I do see him and care to say anything after the game I would make a smart comment about all fans being so ignorant of the rules and that they should read a rule book. This is about the only time passive aggressive works.

[RedAndWhiteRef]

Originally Posted by deecee

Why do you hold officials to a higher standard? The only standard we should be held to is can we adjudicate the games we work impartially, and in respect to the rules yes the standard is higher.

As for an official that acts as a fan, I would treat them as such. I would most likely have a smart a$$ remark like BNR had. But I don't hold anyone to any higher standards than just do your job. I'm not going to treat him any different because hes a "ref". At that moment he's a fan. If I do see him and care to say anything after the game I would make a smart comment about all fans being so ignorant of the rules and that they should read a rule book. This is about the only time passive aggressive works.

For what it's worth, I think I did treat him as such in the moment. I tuned him out like any other fan. Then, knowing he wasn't just another fan after the game, I did what I thought was the right thing to do.

Anyway I just got a call from my assignor and he said it would be addressed. I didn't tell him who it was but he figured it out pretty quick when he saw what game it was.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by deecee

Why do you hold officials to a higher standard? The only standard we should be held to is can we adjudicate the games we work impartially, and in respect to the rules yes the standard is higher.

As for an official that acts as a fan, I would treat them as such. I would most likely have a smart a$$ remark like BNR had. But I don't hold anyone to any higher standards than just do your job. I'm not going to treat him any different because hes a "ref". At that moment he's a fan. If I do see him and care to say anything after the game I would make a smart comment about all fans being so ignorant of the rules and that they should read a rule book. This is about the only time passive aggressive works.

If i have a game and a fan decides to pop off, i usually ignore it unless it cant be ignored. If I know that someone is a referee, i WILL hold them to a higher standard and i will not ignore it. Referees should know better. I'll ignore idiot fans. I wont ignore another referee acting like an idiot. I havnt ever had to deal with it but that's how id respond.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by RedAndWhiteRef

For what it's worth, I think I did treat him as such in the moment. I tuned him out like any other fan. Then, knowing he wasn't just another fan after the game, I did what I thought was the right thing to do.

Anyway I just got a call from my assignor and he said it would be addressed. I didn't tell him who it was but he figured it out pretty quick when he saw what game it was.

I'm guessing he's an as$ hat in general? Usually people don't just "act" a certain way in certain situations. I can sympathize with the position you were in. If there is any advice I can give you that may help is that no matter what the tales are, nobody walks on water. Treat everyone how you want to be treated, and don't hold anyone to expectations you would hold yourself to.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

I'm guessing he's an as$ hat in general? Usually people don't just "act" a certain way in certain situations. I can sympathize with the position you were in. If there is any advice I can give you that may help is that no matter what the tales are, nobody walks on water. Treat everyone how you want to be treated, and don't hold anyone to expectations you would hold yourself to.

Exactly, I highly doubt this is the first game he's done this.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

Why do you hold officials to a higher standard? The only standard we should be held to is can we adjudicate the games we work impartially, and in respect to the rules yes the standard is higher.

As for an official that acts as a fan, I would treat them as such. I would most likely have a smart a$$ remark like BNR had. But I don't hold anyone to any higher standards than just do your job. I'm not going to treat him any different because hes a "ref". At that moment he's a fan. If I do see him and care to say anything after the game I would make a smart comment about all fans being so ignorant of the rules and that they should read a rule book. This is about the only time passive aggressive works.

Because one of the first things I learned is the expectation to not do this when at a game as a fan. It's a standard we are all held to for a reason.

I would have given him the courtesy of a quiet warning, and his response would dictate the way I proceed.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by deecee

Why do you hold officials to a higher standard? The only standard we should be held to is can we adjudicate the games we work impartially, and in respect to the rules yes the standard is higher.

As for an official that acts as a fan, I would treat them as such. I would most likely have a smart a$$ remark like BNR had. But I don't hold anyone to any higher standards than just do your job. I'm not going to treat him any different because hes a "ref". At that moment he's a fan. If I do see him and care to say anything after the game I would make a smart comment about all fans being so ignorant of the rules and that they should read a rule book. This is about the only time passive aggressive works.

I absolutely hold officials to a higher standard when they are watching games as fans because they should know better, plain and simple.

And there is no reason to be passive aggressive. Deal with the issue head on. Tell the guy you didnt appreciate how he behaved during the game and you have a reasonable expectation of not dealing with that BS from a fellow official. If he disagrees then tell him you'll adress it with the assigner. Our assigner would let the official know of the standard we have here for treating fellow officials even as a fan.

Ive been a fan and a coach. I know how emotional people can get and how easy it is to go off on the officiating but I also, am an official. And know how difficult the job is and what it entails. So I keep that in mind when I'm watching a game in a different capacity. And I think its more than fair to expect fellow officials to do the same, especially those within the same association.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Adam

Because one of the first things I learned is the expectation to not do this when at a game as a fan. It's a standard we are all held to for a reason.

I would have given him the courtesy of a quiet warning, and his response would dictate the way I proceed.

I'm not defending him in any way, nor is this the first time I have heard this. I just don't subscribe to this. It's like the varsity coach that is in the stands for the JV game. I treat him as a fan. If he is just sitting at the end of a the bench and thinks he's a fan I'm treating him as bench personnel.

If it bothers me to the point where it was affecting my job I would address it at that point. I.e. tell game management to either check his attitude or remove him.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I absolutely hold officials to a higher standard when they are watching games as fans because they should know better, plain and simple.

And there is no reason to be passive aggressive. Deal with the issue head on. Tell the guy you didnt appreciate how he behaved during the game and you have a reasonable expectation of not dealing with that BS from a fellow official. If he disagrees then tell him you'll adress it with the assigner. Our assigner would let the official know of the standard we have here for treating fellow officials even as a fan.

Ive been a fan and a coach. I know how emotional people can get and how easy it is to go off on the officiating but I also, am an official. And know how difficult the job is and what it entails. So I keep that in mind when I'm watching a game in a different capacity. And I think its more than fair to expect fellow officials to do the same, especially those within the same association.

Honestly, my only difference with this is the fact that I'm going to the assigner regardless. Not because I'm afraid to deal with the jack-ass, but because I know he's done it before and will do it again. It needs to get dealt with from top down, not from the bottom up.

I'd also add that he's not as well-respected as the OP may think if he's doing this.

Additionally, when an official acts like this, those around him will typically know he's an official and will take their cue from him. I'm getting rid of that element, but others may certainly do it differently.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Adam

Honestly, my only difference with this is the fact that I'm going to the assigner regardless. Not because I'm afraid to deal with the jack-ass, but because I know he's done it before and will do it again. It needs to get dealt with from top down, not from the bottom up.

I'd also add that he's not as well-respected as the OP may think if he's doing this.

Additionally, when an official acts like this, those around him will typically know he's an official and will take their cue from him. I'm getting rid of that element, but others may certainly do it differently.

Agreed on all accounts.

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by Adam

Additionally, when an official acts like this, those around him will typically know he's an official and will take their cue from him. I'm getting rid of that element, but others may certainly do it differently.

^^^^^^^ This.

I guarantee others know he is an official and will take the cue from him that this is acceptable. It's not. Paying their $5 does not give them a right to come in and act like an a-hole.

It should be in every association's by laws to prohibit this crap.

[Remington]

Quick background: I assign the varsity contests for the 2 JUCO's and 5 local HS teams. We have an association with your typical board, but I have the golden pen when it comes to assigning the varsity contests.

I check with the R of each crew, at a minimum, after each game via text or call to be ready to head off any potential complaints or issues. I also outlay an assigning rationalle before the season that talks about how you are tiered, what factors can influence the number and type of assignments and I give myself a catch all that says the assigner can also make other rulings that may not be specifically covered above.

I have had this exact scenario happen twice in the last 5 years that I have been made aware of. One time it was a lower tier veteran official that was the problem and the other time it was a high level official who was also a personal friend of mine and I handled both situations the exact same so here is my personal $.02.

First of all, it was wrong by this fellow official. Second, NO association wants to lose a young official (unless you are a problem child) so your concerns will not be taken lightly.

I would call the assigner and association president and let them know what happened. I personally don't think anyone benefits from putting this stuff in writing as in the heat of the moment you could write something you don't mean and you never know whose hands it gets into. Along those lines, there is NO need to embellish the scenario as there is probably video and/or witnesses somewhere that will validate the story so just be professional and explain what happened.

Not that it matters, but I penalized the officials a game fee (training and development fund to put on clinics) and needed confirmation that they reached out to the entire crew and apologized. Both of these officials knew exactly what I was calling them for and I truly believe they just got caught up in the game. It happens unfortunately. They were wrong, but they also have been excellent ever since and have actually shared their blunder with other parents who officiate and it has made a big difference in our area.