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Old Wed Jun 21, 2006, 09:33am
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Coach Riding Partner?

A quick question...

I worked a 16-18 BR game last night with a relatively new partner. He's in his second year of umpiring.

He had quite a few "bangers" on the bases, close enough that they could've gone either way in my opinion, and the coaches were riding him mercilessly. A couple of times with really close plays at 1B, the one coach went out on him to argue with questions like, "Did my F3 come off the bag? Why is the runner safe?"

My partner was obviously starting to get thrown off his game.

My question is, at what point do I (or should I at all) step in and put a stop to the nonsence? It reached the point of holding up the game for no reason. Toward the end I thought they were just arguing with him because he was letting them.

I'd like your opinions on this issue.
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Old Wed Jun 21, 2006, 09:38am
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HTBT, but sounds like your partner needs to discover the joys of tossing a coach...but can you explain "holding up the game?" What does that mean?

Since he's new and obviously intimidated, you might 'chat' with him between innings and advise him to toss the next rat who starts the nonsense again. But he has to stand up for himself and do the tossing...you can't eject a rat on his behalf.
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Old Wed Jun 21, 2006, 09:46am
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By holding up the game I mean the coach was out there for an extended period of time. I don't know exactly what the conversation was, but I know it was long enough for the coach to ask a question, get his answer, ask another question, get another answer, over and over, round and round we go for 3,4,5 minutes at a time.
All the while I'm thinking, "Tell him 'I think he was safe, you think he was out, but I'm not going to change my mind. Let's play ball.' "

I wasn't thinking of ejections, just saying something between innings like "Coach, let's pick our battles here. You're arguing calls that will never change."

Last edited by ctblu40; Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 09:49am.
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Old Wed Jun 21, 2006, 09:59am
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Ok, Im getting the picture.


He's arguing judgment calls. That's a no-no. If he's really out there 3-5 minutes at a time, then you are right, this is a game-management issue now. That's nuts. I bet the folks in the stands just loved that

I'd go up and break these prayer-meetings up with "Coach, that's how he saw it, we have a game to play, let's play ball." That's his warning.

Tell your BU that now he can eject later if it continues.
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Old Wed Jun 21, 2006, 10:05am
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Thumbs up

I thought about that LMAN, I just didn't want to step on my partners toes or give the appearence that he couldn't handle himself on the field. That is defintley what I should've done though.

Thanks
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Old Wed Jun 21, 2006, 10:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctblu40
I thought about that LMAN, I just didn't want to step on my partners toes or give the appearence that he couldn't handle himself on the field. That is defintley what I should've done though.

Thanks

Well by allowing the coach to argue for 3-5 minutes on a judgement call, your BU already has given the appearance that he "can't" handle himself.

Hey its summer ball, help the young guy out. I would quicklly approach the situation and let the coach know that we are fixing to play ball.

Believe me, everyone in the stands already knows whats happening. So by being a good umpire we can help the young umpire.

If the coach wants to continue then now its with "me" and not my young partner.

We all were there one time (a beginner) and I learned the hard way but I sure did appreciate the times that my mentors got me "out of the frying pan".

Then after the game, I would talk with my young umpire on the proper way to handle the situtation etc.,
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Old Wed Jun 21, 2006, 10:15am
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I had a similar situation in a game a couple of years back. My partner, the PU was relatively inexperienced and the managers from both sides were riding him hard from the first inning. After about 3 innings of this nonsense I came in to have a word with him between innings.

We talked about what was and wasn't acceptable in terms of the coach's behavior and I thought that we had well crossed over the line of what's acceptable. I also told him to put an end to it by telling the coach that he's had enough and it was time to play the game.

I also told him that I would warn the next coach and would follow with an ejection if needed but that it would earn him a lot more respect if he was the one who handled it. Of course, the coaches were on him again during the next inning and I ended up dumping one of them.

I don't like to fish in someone else's pond but this was a situation where some semblance of order needed to be restored.

We talked about it a bit more after the game. I told him that he'll never earn any respect from the coaches or players if he allows himself to get berated and walked all over during a game - especially if he allows his partners to 'protect' him.
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Old Wed Jun 21, 2006, 10:21am
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[QUOTE=David B]Well by allowing the coach to argue for 3-5 minutes on a judgement call, your BU already has given the appearance that he "can't" handle himself.
QUOTE]

Point well taken, I never thought of that...
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Old Wed Jun 21, 2006, 11:55am
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A helpful tip that was passed on to me for judging when to eject: the coach wants to leave whenever he uses one of the three P's: personal ("you suck", or anything bad about you personally, as opposed to the call), profane, or prolonged.

With arguing, whining, weaseling, and chirping, I generally give a warning (like "that's enough, let's play ball"), and after that, it's prolonged. The other P's are pretty easy to spot. Any ejection on these grounds is pretty easy to defend to assignors, committees, TD's, and the like.
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Old Wed Jun 21, 2006, 03:13pm
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[QUOTE=ctblu40]A quick question...

I worked a 16-18 BR game last night with a relatively new partner. He's in his second year of umpiring.


Perhaps it's the shortage, but for the most part a second year umpire should not be assigned to a 16-18 yr. old baseball game. That's equivalent to being assigned Varsity games in your second year of umpiring. Yes it happens but it depends upon your evaluations.

Your partner by his dealings with the coach was not ready for this type of ball. After it was apparent that your partner could not control the situation, then you step in.

Why!

First and Foremost, the coach by being allowed to discuss Judgement calls with your partner for some 3/5 minutes a pop is now taking too much of my time.

You give your partner a chance, but once it's obvious he cannot handle the situation, step in and as David pointed out alter the situation from your partner to you. Once you get your partner "out of the picture" now you can handle the situation and if the coach persists it's a relatively easy "dump"

Umpiring in a way is like when we played.

What happened when we went from say Freshmen ball to Varsity. F1 wanted to see how much guts we had. Would we stand in there with High heat or buckle under a curve etc.

Being a young or new umpire is no different. Coaches will test you to see how far they can go or what they can get away with.

Another reason not to "push new umpires" up is not to loose them.

Bottom Line: First give your partner a chance, see what happens and then step in and get the game moving.

Pete Booth
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Old Wed Jun 21, 2006, 03:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctblu40
I thought about that LMAN, I just didn't want to step on my partners toes or give the appearence that he couldn't handle himself on the field. That is defintley what I should've done though.

Thanks
As PU, you're the UIC for that game. Set that coach straight.

Bob
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Old Wed Jun 21, 2006, 08:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctblu40
By holding up the game I mean the coach was out there for an extended period of time. I don't know exactly what the conversation was, but I know it was long enough for the coach to ask a question, get his answer, ask another question, get another answer, over and over, round and round we go for 3,4,5 minutes at a time."
I am not going to allow my inexperienced partner to endure an argument that lasts over 30 seconds. I'm on the way to the rescue and the coach is going to know I am on the way. I will not be running but the pace will be quick. It better be over when I get there. If it's an assistant hammering him it is over when I get there because I'm going to teach my new partner how to deal with assistants who come on the field to argue and if it's a head coach I will give him 10 or 15 seconds with me and that's all.

If it happens a second time I will be headed toward my partner in about 15 seconds and the head coach will get 10 seconds with me (recall that the assistant is no longer around if it was him the first time), the last few seconds of which will be me telling him what the result of his third time out will be. I may get to toss him right then based on his retort.

There are no 3,4,5 minute delays caused by arguing coaches.
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