Fellow ref riding crew as spectator

[RedAndWhiteRef]

I had a BJV game tonight in which a ref from our association had a kid playing. He was standing near the corner of the baseline and every time on that end I blew the whistle (or didn't, depending on the team), he's just all over me. Yelling loudly enough for the whole gym to hear (and it got pretty loud for a JV game). Nothing inappropriate or profane or personal, he was just being an a$$hole. To his fellow officials from the association.

Most of it was toward me and I did a decent job of tuning him out (I'm 24 but I'm no rookie--this is my fifth year of officiating), but I knew he said something to one of my partners too. This guy is a decently-respected official in our association too, and I've seen him on-court at several big games.

I know it wasn't personal, but it's not okay. I can't really say I've felt more disrespected as an official in my short career. And frankly I don't care if your kid is playing. I don't care about your kid. I'm not in this for the kids. There's no excuse for an official to be acting that way, even if they have a vested interest in the game.

I didn't feel the need to get game management involved, but I did send an email to our association president and asked him to send an email to everybody reminding them that there are certain ways we should act at games. Appropriate response?

[deecee]

If he were a fan, and not a ref, what would you have done?

[RedAndWhiteRef]

Originally Posted by deecee

If he were a fan, and not a ref, what would you have done?

Is that a trick question? Zoned it out like normal. But that's just it. He's representing our association regardless of whether he's in stripes and it's embarrassing to the association IMO. And not to sound too blunt but I really don't appreciate being treated that way by someone I may work with one day.

[SC Official]

I don't let fans stand next to the court and berate me. If there's room in the stands (which I assume there was for a JV game), I'd tell game management to put him in the stands.

And yes, send an email to whoever is in charge in your association. No legitimate association would tolerate that s*it from its members.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

If he were a fan, and not a ref, what would you have done?

I hold officials to a higher standard, so your question doesn't matter to me.

In the game, if he's even the slightest distraction, his kid can tell him all about the game later.

As soon as that game is over, I'm sending an email to the assigner and president of the association. This is the most inappropriate behavior imaginable for an official, even if he's not getting obscene. The entire event is unacceptable for a "respected official" and he needs to be corrected.

Frankly, my inclination is to have him escorted out and he and I can have a sit-down with the assigner if need-be.

[BigCat]

Your 24 and I'm assuming he is older and more entrenched as an official so I understand your reluctance to deal with him during the game...but if he's yelling or harassing you every time down you should have dealt with him. "Your a referee, you should know better." If he keeps up. Toss him.

Now it's easy to say that now. What should you do at this point? Notifying assigner is fine and association. At the next meeting I'd make a point to find him and tell him "saw you at game the other night. Surprised the hell out of me the way you, a fellow referee acted. Screaming... I didn't and don't appreciate it. "

You can stop there and see what he says. If he apologizes, up to you to accept or not.?If he's a jerk, tell him "I should have addressed it then I won't make that mistake again."

I wouldn't just leave it up to the association or assigner. He did it to you. He's likely a bully. Let him know politely, but very firmly that you did notice it and it isn't ok.

That's what I'd tell you. Good luck. (Take BNR with you just in case)

[RedAndWhiteRef]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Your 24 and I'm assuming he is older and more entrenched as an official so I understand your reluctance to deal with him during the game...but if he's yelling or harassing you every time down you should have dealt with him. "Your a referee, you should know better." If he keeps up. Toss him.

Now it's easy to say that now. What should you do at this point? Notifying assigner is fine and association. At the next meeting I'd make a point to find him and tell him "saw you at game the other night. Surprised the hell out of me the way you, a fellow referee acted. Screaming... I didn't and don't appreciate it. "

You can stop there and see what he says. If he apologizes, up to you to accept or not.?If he's a jerk, tell him "I should have addressed it then I won't make that mistake again."

I wouldn't just leave it up to the association or assigner. He did it to you. He's likely a bully. Let him know politely, but very firmly that you did notice it and it isn't ok.

That's what I'd tell you. Good luck. (Take BNR with you just in case)

I get the impression that he thought I didn't know who he was so he thought he could just act a fool during the game and no one important (to him) would notice.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by RedAndWhiteRef

I get the impression that he thought I didn't know who he was so he thought he could just act a fool during the game and no one important (to him) would notice.

Another option is to introduce yourself to him. I refereed a game you were at. Heard somebody screaming at us. Thought it was a crazy fan. Looked over and was surprised it was you, another referee...

See what your assigner or association says they think you should do. Or ask someone more experienced in that association. They know the lay of the land. I would like to see you call him out but that might not be the best thing for you to do.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Adam

I hold officials to a higher standard, so your question doesn't matter to me.

In the game, if he's even the slightest distraction, his kid can tell him all about the game later.

As soon as that game is over, I'm sending an email to the assigner and president of the association. This is the most inappropriate behavior imaginable for an official, even if he's not getting obscene. The entire event is unacceptable for a "respected official" and he needs to be corrected.

Frankly, my inclination is to have him escorted out and he and I can have a sit-down with the assigner if need-be.

Why do you hold officials to a higher standard? The only standard we should be held to is can we adjudicate the games we work impartially, and in respect to the rules yes the standard is higher.

As for an official that acts as a fan, I would treat them as such. I would most likely have a smart a$$ remark like BNR had. But I don't hold anyone to any higher standards than just do your job. I'm not going to treat him any different because hes a "ref". At that moment he's a fan. If I do see him and care to say anything after the game I would make a smart comment about all fans being so ignorant of the rules and that they should read a rule book. This is about the only time passive aggressive works.

[RedAndWhiteRef]

Originally Posted by deecee

Why do you hold officials to a higher standard? The only standard we should be held to is can we adjudicate the games we work impartially, and in respect to the rules yes the standard is higher.

As for an official that acts as a fan, I would treat them as such. I would most likely have a smart a$$ remark like BNR had. But I don't hold anyone to any higher standards than just do your job. I'm not going to treat him any different because hes a "ref". At that moment he's a fan. If I do see him and care to say anything after the game I would make a smart comment about all fans being so ignorant of the rules and that they should read a rule book. This is about the only time passive aggressive works.

For what it's worth, I think I did treat him as such in the moment. I tuned him out like any other fan. Then, knowing he wasn't just another fan after the game, I did what I thought was the right thing to do.

Anyway I just got a call from my assignor and he said it would be addressed. I didn't tell him who it was but he figured it out pretty quick when he saw what game it was.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by RedAndWhiteRef

For what it's worth, I think I did treat him as such in the moment. I tuned him out like any other fan. Then, knowing he wasn't just another fan after the game, I did what I thought was the right thing to do.

Anyway I just got a call from my assignor and he said it would be addressed. I didn't tell him who it was but he figured it out pretty quick when he saw what game it was.

I'm guessing he's an as$ hat in general? Usually people don't just "act" a certain way in certain situations. I can sympathize with the position you were in. If there is any advice I can give you that may help is that no matter what the tales are, nobody walks on water. Treat everyone how you want to be treated, and don't hold anyone to expectations you would hold yourself to.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by deecee

Why do you hold officials to a higher standard? The only standard we should be held to is can we adjudicate the games we work impartially, and in respect to the rules yes the standard is higher.

As for an official that acts as a fan, I would treat them as such. I would most likely have a smart a$$ remark like BNR had. But I don't hold anyone to any higher standards than just do your job. I'm not going to treat him any different because hes a "ref". At that moment he's a fan. If I do see him and care to say anything after the game I would make a smart comment about all fans being so ignorant of the rules and that they should read a rule book. This is about the only time passive aggressive works.

If i have a game and a fan decides to pop off, i usually ignore it unless it cant be ignored. If I know that someone is a referee, i WILL hold them to a higher standard and i will not ignore it. Referees should know better. I'll ignore idiot fans. I wont ignore another referee acting like an idiot. I havnt ever had to deal with it but that's how id respond.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

Why do you hold officials to a higher standard? The only standard we should be held to is can we adjudicate the games we work impartially, and in respect to the rules yes the standard is higher.

As for an official that acts as a fan, I would treat them as such. I would most likely have a smart a$$ remark like BNR had. But I don't hold anyone to any higher standards than just do your job. I'm not going to treat him any different because hes a "ref". At that moment he's a fan. If I do see him and care to say anything after the game I would make a smart comment about all fans being so ignorant of the rules and that they should read a rule book. This is about the only time passive aggressive works.

Because one of the first things I learned is the expectation to not do this when at a game as a fan. It's a standard we are all held to for a reason.

I would have given him the courtesy of a quiet warning, and his response would dictate the way I proceed.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Adam

Because one of the first things I learned is the expectation to not do this when at a game as a fan. It's a standard we are all held to for a reason.

I would have given him the courtesy of a quiet warning, and his response would dictate the way I proceed.

I'm not defending him in any way, nor is this the first time I have heard this. I just don't subscribe to this. It's like the varsity coach that is in the stands for the JV game. I treat him as a fan. If he is just sitting at the end of a the bench and thinks he's a fan I'm treating him as bench personnel.

If it bothers me to the point where it was affecting my job I would address it at that point. I.e. tell game management to either check his attitude or remove him.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by deecee

Why do you hold officials to a higher standard? The only standard we should be held to is can we adjudicate the games we work impartially, and in respect to the rules yes the standard is higher.

As for an official that acts as a fan, I would treat them as such. I would most likely have a smart a$$ remark like BNR had. But I don't hold anyone to any higher standards than just do your job. I'm not going to treat him any different because hes a "ref". At that moment he's a fan. If I do see him and care to say anything after the game I would make a smart comment about all fans being so ignorant of the rules and that they should read a rule book. This is about the only time passive aggressive works.

I absolutely hold officials to a higher standard when they are watching games as fans because they should know better, plain and simple.

And there is no reason to be passive aggressive. Deal with the issue head on. Tell the guy you didnt appreciate how he behaved during the game and you have a reasonable expectation of not dealing with that BS from a fellow official. If he disagrees then tell him you'll adress it with the assigner. Our assigner would let the official know of the standard we have here for treating fellow officials even as a fan.

Ive been a fan and a coach. I know how emotional people can get and how easy it is to go off on the officiating but I also, am an official. And know how difficult the job is and what it entails. So I keep that in mind when I'm watching a game in a different capacity. And I think its more than fair to expect fellow officials to do the same, especially those within the same association.