State Tournament Assignments

[Valley Man]

To me the system here in VA is flawed in the fact that on the biggest stage you get "all star" crews that have not worked together. Shouldn't the biggest games of the year have officials that at least have worked with each other? I know all officials follow the same rules and such, but we all know that a crew that works together usually has a better game. More consistency in play calling, handling coaches, handling players and overall gamesmanship.

If it were me, I would have associations across the state send crews of 3 and maybe even work multiple games at the state if needed.

Just my .02 worth

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

To me the system here in VA is flawed in the fact that on the biggest stage you get "all star" crews that have not worked together. Shouldn't the biggest games of the year have officials that at least have worked with each other? I know all officials follow the same rules and such, but we all know that a crew that works together usually has a better game. More consistency in play calling, handling coaches, handling players and overall gamesmanship.

If it were me, I would have associations across the state send crews of 3 and maybe even work multiple games at the state if needed.

Just my .02 worth

If you know how to work the system and the mechanics, you do not need to work with someone IMO at all. I work with many officials that I have never worked with and we are fine. Now if you have a system that only allows officials to work with the same guys all year, then that might be considered, but working together IMO should not be a prerequisite for who works playoff games. But again this could be a local thing.

Also our officials are assigned mostly by a cross-section of areas, association affiliation really does not come into play in our area. So if a team comes from my area, I would not be prevented from working their games in the post season either. We are assigned games during the regular season like the NCAA assigns officials. We work for each conference and we might get teams we have had previously during the year or even during the playoffs in some cases.

Peace

[Valley Man]

I am not saying that working together is a pre-requisite. I am saying that sending crews from an association and those guys have worked together it lends itself to having a more consistently called game.

I am not saying that Semis and Finals are called badly, just seems to me to be a flaw to have nominations and then asking them to work what may be the biggest game they have ever worked with partners that they have no clue about.

[BryanV21]

As for working with the same people or crew, I find that oftentimes I'm more "with it" when working with different people. That's not to say I'm lazy when working with my crew, but when I'm working with other people I don't know how good or bad they are. For example, I pay more attention to making sure my mechanics are 100% so our communication is as good as possible.

As for how playoffs are assigned in central Ohio (other parts of Ohio may be different... I don't know) voting is done by each local association. My association has around 400 members, and each of them can vote for as many officials as possible for the boys and/or girls playoffs. I believe each association gets to send a certain percentage of their members to the playoffs, so the larger your association the smaller your chances of getting in. I can't remember for sure, but I believe votes are weighted based on how long the voting member has been certified.

Once you are voted in, I don't know how it's determined how many games or how far into the playoffs you officiate. But it seems to be up to whoever assigns the games. Like, they can pick from the pool of officials that got voted in.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

I am not saying that working together is a pre-requisite. I am saying that sending crews from an association and those guys have worked together it lends itself to having a more consistently called game.

What they do not teach the same things? Again if we are working the same system, why would consistency be different?

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

To me the system here in VA is flawed in the fact that on the biggest stage you get "all star" crews that have not worked together. Shouldn't the biggest games of the year have officials that at least have worked with each other? I know all officials follow the same rules and such, but we all know that a crew that works together usually has a better game. More consistency in play calling, handling coaches, handling players and overall gamesmanship.

If it were me, I would have associations across the state send crews of 3 and maybe even work multiple games at the state if needed.

Just my .02 worth

An official good enough to the work the VHSL Final Four should be able to work with new guy/gals. College officials often work with officials they have never worked with before.

[deecee]

A good official can work with anyone anytime.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

An official good enough to the work the VHSL Final Four should be able to work with new guy/gals. College officials often work with officials they have never worked with before.

I worked with a guy in the State Finals last year that I never worked with and we did fine. And the head official told us that our game was a great example of how officials from different areas can work together. We had no major problems whatsoever.

Peace

[VaTerp]

Interesting that in WA and TX the finals crew seems to be selected from the crews that worked the semis or previous rounds if I'm understanding correctly.

Seems like it could cause some scheduling conflicts not knowing if you are working a final until after the semis and also seems to limit the pool of officials getting games. Does seem to have the potential to reward the best officials based on performance in the state playoffs.

I'm still curious about limits on how many state games an official gets. The example from IL of 3 Finals period for officials seems a bit extreme to me but I can see the rationale.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Crews don't necessarily have to travel for the quarter-finals. I believe (and I may be wrong) that the VHSL avoids having crews work games involving teams they officiate during the regular season. There are 3 different associations who work public school games here in Hampton Roads (ODU site), so it's possible for a local crew to work.

Also, you have my son's school, which is playing its games (girls and boys) as the #1 6A South seed up in Richmond instead of at ODU in Norfolk. So I can conceive of the Richmond board (my association) working that game.

True. They don't always travel but usually do and my guess is for the same reason you mentioned. BTW I will be at ODU on Saturday. Will you be around? I'll PM you.

Originally Posted by Valley Man

I am not saying that working together is a pre-requisite. I am saying that sending crews from an association and those guys have worked together it lends itself to having a more consistently called game.

I am not saying that Semis and Finals are called badly, just seems to me to be a flaw to have nominations and then asking them to work what may be the biggest game they have ever worked with partners that they have no clue about.

There is certainly some comfort in working with people you are familiar with but I think they want mixed crews so you don't have all of the officials from one area covering teams from where they live. Or exclude all of the officials from the areas that have the most teams in the semis and finals.

i've had no issues with the mixed crews I've been a part of. This is where a thorough pre-game is important. To discuss officiating philosophy and how we see the game. Officials good enough to be assigned these games can make adjustments and get on the same page as their partners rather quickly. Also many of the officials know each other from working college games, seeing each other at camps, or even previous state tournys. I don't think its an issue at all.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I'm still curious about limits on how many state games an official gets. The example from IL of 3 Finals period for officials seems a bit extreme to me but I can see the rationale.

That is not the policy at all. They just give other officials a chance than just keep sending officials back over and over and over again. The only standing policy is that you can only go back two years in a row, then you must sit a year. The current administrator tries to rotate people around as there are over 5000 officials statewide. Not everyone is going to get a shot, but those that do will not be there year after year.

We also have 4 classes with 4 separate State Final Weekends going by gender and class.

Girls 1A-2A (Last weekend)
Girls 3A-4A (This weekend)
Boys 1A-2A (Nest weekend)
Boys 3A-4A (Following weekend)

There are officials that have worked 3 in one of the weekends only to go a few more times in another weekend.

Peace

[BubbaRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is not the policy at all. They just give other officials a chance than just keep sending officials back over and over and over again. The only standing policy is that you can only go back two years in a row, then you must sit a year. The current administrator tries to rotate people around as there are over 5000 officials statewide. Not everyone is going to get a shot, but those that do will not be there year after year.

We also have 4 classes with 4 separate State Final Weekends going by gender and class.

Girls 1A-2A (Last weekend)
Girls 3A-4A (This weekend)
Boys 1A-2A (Nest weekend)
Boys 3A-4A (Following weekend)

There are officials that have worked 3 in one of the weekends only to go a few more times in another weekend.

Peace

I am working my 3rd and final trip this year in 3A/4A girls in Illinois. My first trip was in '11 and my second was in '13 so my times have been spaced out.

I do like how our boys side pair you up with your partners at the Sectional level, giving you 3 games to work together before you reach the State Finals. Where on the girls side you don't find out until the night before you work who you are with and what time. Different philosophies I guess.

[Remington]

In ND we have a multi-faceted approach. Coaches will nominate names and subsequently vote. Then, the 8 site supervisors across the state will nominate 20 officials state wide that they feel are most qualified. Our 8 site supervisors are all good collegiate officials so their input is very valuable. Then, the state governing body will select the officials from those lists. We send 12 officials to each state tournament. Class A & B (boys and girls). We are permitted to work 3 consecutive state tournaments and then you must sit a year to help allow for new blood. I generally like our system as it allows coaches some input but won't allow for a coach to black ball a good official because the site supervisors and state governing body will have their say.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BubbaRef

I am working my 3rd and final trip this year in 3A/4A girls in Illinois. My first trip was in '11 and my second was in '13 so my times have been spaced out.

I do like how our boys side pair you up with your partners at the Sectional level, giving you 3 games to work together before you reach the State Finals. Where on the girls side you don't find out until the night before you work who you are with and what time. Different philosophies I guess.

Well that only works in the Sectional Level, it is possible we could get split up and sometimes are split up. We were split up in the State Finals on the final day and the crews that worked the title games did not work together. And there have been years the administrator has broken up the Sectional Crews to work the Super. That could happen this year.

Peace

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Interesting that in WA and TX the finals crew seems to be selected from the crews that worked the semis or previous rounds if I'm understanding correctly.

Seems like it could cause some scheduling conflicts not knowing if you are working a final until after the semis and also seems to limit the pool of officials getting games. Does seem to have the potential to reward the best officials based on performance in the state playoffs.

At least in Texas, this is not an issue as the semi-finals for three of the six classes are played on Thursday with the remainder played on Friday. Finals are played on Saturday. All games at the same arena (Alamodome in San Antonio this year). The officials are all at the same site so the only travel is from the hotel to the arena. And, since they have selected the officials for the semi-finals the size of the pool will never change.

[BillyMac]

Connecticut: 100% IAABO, six local IAABO Boards.

The state interscholastic sports governing body assigns all state tournament officials, using Arbiter. Connecticut is a geographically small state and officials can be assigned a state tournament game anywhere in the state, with the maximum one way trip being about one hundred miles.

There are four classes based on school enrollments, however there are exceptions for magnet schools, charter schools, Catholic schools, etc., that have a history of being successful in the state tournament and draw students (it ain't recruiting, wink, wink) from a large geographic area.

Schools that win at least 40% of their regular season games make the state tournament. All coaches, even those that don’t make the state tournament, vote for officials. Officials that receive the most votes are put into a pool that are assigned state tournament games, with some tinkering based on the number of schools that a local Board services. The more votes an official receives, the more likely he is to work further into the state tournament.

Almost all of the local Boards have their officials select either the boys tournament, or the girls tournament. At least one local Board allows their officials to work state tournament games of both genders.

If a state tournament game involves a school from Board A, and a school from Board B, the game will be officiated by officials from one of the other four local Boards. Officials will always work with officials from their own local Board.

If a state tournament game involves two schools from Board A, the game will probably be officiated by Board A officials, although there are exceptions.

State tournament games up to the quarterfinals are two person games. Quarterfinals, semifinals, and finals, are three person games.

State finals, in all four enrollment classes, for both genders (eight championship games), are played at the Mohegan Sun Arena.

That's right, high school kids at an Indian casino, some playing championship basketball games a Sunday.

"Baby needs a new pair of basketball shoes".