State Tournament Assignments

[VaTerp]

Interesting that in WA and TX the finals crew seems to be selected from the crews that worked the semis or previous rounds if I'm understanding correctly.

Seems like it could cause some scheduling conflicts not knowing if you are working a final until after the semis and also seems to limit the pool of officials getting games. Does seem to have the potential to reward the best officials based on performance in the state playoffs.

I'm still curious about limits on how many state games an official gets. The example from IL of 3 Finals period for officials seems a bit extreme to me but I can see the rationale.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Crews don't necessarily have to travel for the quarter-finals. I believe (and I may be wrong) that the VHSL avoids having crews work games involving teams they officiate during the regular season. There are 3 different associations who work public school games here in Hampton Roads (ODU site), so it's possible for a local crew to work.

Also, you have my son's school, which is playing its games (girls and boys) as the #1 6A South seed up in Richmond instead of at ODU in Norfolk. So I can conceive of the Richmond board (my association) working that game.

True. They don't always travel but usually do and my guess is for the same reason you mentioned. BTW I will be at ODU on Saturday. Will you be around? I'll PM you.

Originally Posted by Valley Man

I am not saying that working together is a pre-requisite. I am saying that sending crews from an association and those guys have worked together it lends itself to having a more consistently called game.

I am not saying that Semis and Finals are called badly, just seems to me to be a flaw to have nominations and then asking them to work what may be the biggest game they have ever worked with partners that they have no clue about.

There is certainly some comfort in working with people you are familiar with but I think they want mixed crews so you don't have all of the officials from one area covering teams from where they live. Or exclude all of the officials from the areas that have the most teams in the semis and finals.

i've had no issues with the mixed crews I've been a part of. This is where a thorough pre-game is important. To discuss officiating philosophy and how we see the game. Officials good enough to be assigned these games can make adjustments and get on the same page as their partners rather quickly. Also many of the officials know each other from working college games, seeing each other at camps, or even previous state tournys. I don't think its an issue at all.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I'm still curious about limits on how many state games an official gets. The example from IL of 3 Finals period for officials seems a bit extreme to me but I can see the rationale.

That is not the policy at all. They just give other officials a chance than just keep sending officials back over and over and over again. The only standing policy is that you can only go back two years in a row, then you must sit a year. The current administrator tries to rotate people around as there are over 5000 officials statewide. Not everyone is going to get a shot, but those that do will not be there year after year.

We also have 4 classes with 4 separate State Final Weekends going by gender and class.

Girls 1A-2A (Last weekend)
Girls 3A-4A (This weekend)
Boys 1A-2A (Nest weekend)
Boys 3A-4A (Following weekend)

There are officials that have worked 3 in one of the weekends only to go a few more times in another weekend.

Peace

[BubbaRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is not the policy at all. They just give other officials a chance than just keep sending officials back over and over and over again. The only standing policy is that you can only go back two years in a row, then you must sit a year. The current administrator tries to rotate people around as there are over 5000 officials statewide. Not everyone is going to get a shot, but those that do will not be there year after year.

We also have 4 classes with 4 separate State Final Weekends going by gender and class.

Girls 1A-2A (Last weekend)
Girls 3A-4A (This weekend)
Boys 1A-2A (Nest weekend)
Boys 3A-4A (Following weekend)

There are officials that have worked 3 in one of the weekends only to go a few more times in another weekend.

Peace

I am working my 3rd and final trip this year in 3A/4A girls in Illinois. My first trip was in '11 and my second was in '13 so my times have been spaced out.

I do like how our boys side pair you up with your partners at the Sectional level, giving you 3 games to work together before you reach the State Finals. Where on the girls side you don't find out until the night before you work who you are with and what time. Different philosophies I guess.

[Remington]

In ND we have a multi-faceted approach. Coaches will nominate names and subsequently vote. Then, the 8 site supervisors across the state will nominate 20 officials state wide that they feel are most qualified. Our 8 site supervisors are all good collegiate officials so their input is very valuable. Then, the state governing body will select the officials from those lists. We send 12 officials to each state tournament. Class A & B (boys and girls). We are permitted to work 3 consecutive state tournaments and then you must sit a year to help allow for new blood. I generally like our system as it allows coaches some input but won't allow for a coach to black ball a good official because the site supervisors and state governing body will have their say.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BubbaRef

I am working my 3rd and final trip this year in 3A/4A girls in Illinois. My first trip was in '11 and my second was in '13 so my times have been spaced out.

I do like how our boys side pair you up with your partners at the Sectional level, giving you 3 games to work together before you reach the State Finals. Where on the girls side you don't find out until the night before you work who you are with and what time. Different philosophies I guess.

Well that only works in the Sectional Level, it is possible we could get split up and sometimes are split up. We were split up in the State Finals on the final day and the crews that worked the title games did not work together. And there have been years the administrator has broken up the Sectional Crews to work the Super. That could happen this year.

Peace

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Interesting that in WA and TX the finals crew seems to be selected from the crews that worked the semis or previous rounds if I'm understanding correctly.

Seems like it could cause some scheduling conflicts not knowing if you are working a final until after the semis and also seems to limit the pool of officials getting games. Does seem to have the potential to reward the best officials based on performance in the state playoffs.

At least in Texas, this is not an issue as the semi-finals for three of the six classes are played on Thursday with the remainder played on Friday. Finals are played on Saturday. All games at the same arena (Alamodome in San Antonio this year). The officials are all at the same site so the only travel is from the hotel to the arena. And, since they have selected the officials for the semi-finals the size of the pool will never change.

[BillyMac]

Connecticut: 100% IAABO, six local IAABO Boards.

The state interscholastic sports governing body assigns all state tournament officials, using Arbiter. Connecticut is a geographically small state and officials can be assigned a state tournament game anywhere in the state, with the maximum one way trip being about one hundred miles.

There are four classes based on school enrollments, however there are exceptions for magnet schools, charter schools, Catholic schools, etc., that have a history of being successful in the state tournament and draw students (it ain't recruiting, wink, wink) from a large geographic area.

Schools that win at least 40% of their regular season games make the state tournament. All coaches, even those that don’t make the state tournament, vote for officials. Officials that receive the most votes are put into a pool that are assigned state tournament games, with some tinkering based on the number of schools that a local Board services. The more votes an official receives, the more likely he is to work further into the state tournament.

Almost all of the local Boards have their officials select either the boys tournament, or the girls tournament. At least one local Board allows their officials to work state tournament games of both genders.

If a state tournament game involves a school from Board A, and a school from Board B, the game will be officiated by officials from one of the other four local Boards. Officials will always work with officials from their own local Board.

If a state tournament game involves two schools from Board A, the game will probably be officiated by Board A officials, although there are exceptions.

State tournament games up to the quarterfinals are two person games. Quarterfinals, semifinals, and finals, are three person games.

State finals, in all four enrollment classes, for both genders (eight championship games), are played at the Mohegan Sun Arena.

That's right, high school kids at an Indian casino, some playing championship basketball games a Sunday.

"Baby needs a new pair of basketball shoes".

[justsumguy3]

Working the WV tournament requires a good deal of commitment in my opinion. 3 officials are chosen from each regional board and will work their games together. They report on Tuesday night for a meeting and will work a quarterfinal game on Wednesday and another quarterfinal on Thursday. They will work a semi on Friday and if they're one of the top 3 crews (of 6), they will receive a state final on Saturday.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by justsumguy3

Working the WV tournament requires a good deal of commitment in my opinion. 3 officials are chosen from each regional board and will work their games together. They report on Tuesday night for a meeting and will work a quarterfinal game on Wednesday and another quarterfinal on Thursday. They will work a semi on Friday and if they're one of the top 3 crews (of 6), they will receive a state final on Saturday.

That is similar to how it works in Oregon, except we're selected as individuals.

We still work 2 person crews at the state tournament level. For each classification, 12 officials are needed. The 12 are provided by the associations around the state proportional to the number of schools serviced by each association at that classification. For each classification, the boys and girls play at the same site over a 3 or 4 day period starting at the quarter finals. Every official will get at least 1 quarter final, maybe 2. 8 of the 12 will get semis. 4 will get championships.


4 day format (1 court):

• Day 1: Girls Quarterfinals....8 officials work
• Day 2: Girls Consolation bracket Semifinals & Boys Quarterfinals...12 officials work
• Day 3: Boys Consolation bracket Semifinals & Boys & Girls Semifinals....12 officials work
• Day 4: Boys and Girls Consolation Bracket finals, 3rd place games & Championship games 12 officials work.

All officials work the last 3 days....so you could have 3 or 4 days in a row.


3 day format (2 courts):

• Day 1: Boys & Girls Quarterfinals....12 officials work, 4 work twice
• Day 2: Boys & Girls Consolation bracket Semifinals & Boys & Girls Semifinals...12 officials...4 work twice
• Day 3: Boys and Girls Consolation Bracket finals, 3rd place games & Championship games....12 officials work.

All officials work all 3 days....some working twice in a day but never more than 4 games total. When it is twice in day, there are several hours between the assignments.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

CIF-SS Playoffs:

Boys and Girls Open Division (Best of the Best) and Divisions 1aa-6:In all 26 classifications of basketball

*2 person assignments for the first two nights (our school's 2nd rd game was 3 person at the host school's request)

*3 person mandated quarterfinals and forward

*Neighboring associations cover games (unlike in volleyball where the policy is to use local crews thru the semifinals)
-For example: Our school is CBOA (California Basketball Officials Association) Inland Unit.We were officiated by the following associations at home:
1st rd boys- CBOA Foothill Citrus Unit
Qtr Finals boys- CBOA Desert Valley Unit
Semifinal boys- CBOA South Orange County Unit

*Both our road games (Girls 1st rd and Boys 2nd were covered by CBOA Channel Coast Unit.

Our semifinal game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_YbmWb1Pn4

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

CIF-SS Playoffs:

Those are your Section playoffs. I believe that the thread inquired about the State playoffs. For you that would start with SoCal Regionals and end with the State Finals.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Schools that win at least 40% of their regular season games make the state tournament.

To fill up the class brackets, three teams with less than a 40% winning percentage made the state tournament this year, two with records of 7-13, and one with a record of 6-14.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

State finals, in all four enrollment classes, for both genders (eight championship games), are played at the Mohegan Sun Arena.

That's right, high school kids at an Indian casino, some playing championship basketball games a Sunday.

"Baby needs a new pair of basketball shoes".

What's the big deal?
When Nevada hosts the State Tourney in Vegas the games are played in the Orleans Arena on the property of the Orleans Casino. There are no games on Sundays though.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

State finals, in all four enrollment classes, for both genders (eight championship games), are played at the Mohegan Sun Casino Arena. That's right, high school kids at an Indian casino, some playing championship basketball games a Sunday. "Baby needs a new pair of basketball shoes".

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What's the big deal? ... in Vegas the games are played in the Orleans Arena on the property of the Orleans Casino. There are no games on Sundays though.

It was a big deal at the time.

When the idea of using the Mohegan Sun Casino Arena was first brought up in 2009, many in the educational community didn't think it was a good idea to expose teenagers to gambling. The players, and fans, actually have to walk around the interior perimeter of the gaming floor, seeing, and hearing, the slot machines, and observing adults consuming alcoholic beverages, and smoking cigarettes, and cigars, to get to the basketball arena. The seven deadly sins all conveniently located in one place. Dr. Evil would love this place.

And the Casino, in the far southeast corner of the state, isn't really in a central location. Previously, state finals were held at Central Connecticut State University, pretty much in the geographic center of the state.

But the Mohegans made the state interscholastic sports governing body an offer that they couldn't refuse. Plenty of free parking, a professional arena (home of the WNBA Connecticut Sun), and a highly discounted rental fee.

At first, the eight games were all on Friday night, and all day on Saturday. Recently, maybe for the past two years, the Mohegans didn't want to give up their arena on a Friday night. The arena is often used for concerts, which draw large adult crowds to the Casino, especially on a Friday night. So they offered the use of the arena for Saturday, and Sunday games.

Connecticut still hangs on to some of it's old fashioned "blue laws". Until 1818, the Congregational Church was the only legal religion in Connecticut, and Connecticut residents were all legally required to attend Sunday services, and to pay taxes to support the Congregational Church. First Amendment? What First Amendment? We don't need no stinkin' First Amendment here in the Constitution State.

Liquor stores (we call them package stores) were just recently allowed, by legislation, to open on Sundays. Our state interscholastic sports governing body strongly discourages high school teams from practicing on Sundays, high school games are never allowed to be scheduled on Sundays, and only when weather related postponements back up the schedule against the end of the season are postponed games allowed to be made up on Sundays.

Again, the Mohegans made the state interscholastic sports governing body an offer that they couldn't refuse, and the state interscholastic sports governing body reluctantly agreed to have basketball finals played on Saturday, and Sunday, and not on Friday night.

Let's not forget Connecticut's other nickname, The Land Of Steady Habits. There's a reason for that nickname.

[mtn335]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Interesting that in WA and TX the finals crew seems to be selected from the crews that worked the semis or previous rounds if I'm understanding correctly.

Seems like it could cause some scheduling conflicts not knowing if you are working a final until after the semis and also seems to limit the pool of officials getting games. Does seem to have the potential to reward the best officials based on performance in the state playoffs.

I'm still curious about limits on how many state games an official gets. The example from IL of 3 Finals period for officials seems a bit extreme to me but I can see the rationale.

I should've clarified - the quarterfinals are Thursday, consolation games and semifinals Friday, and 5th place, 3rd place, and championship games Saturday, all at the same site. 12 officials per gender and site are assigned to work the whole event, and each will work 2 games Thursday (one quarterfinal in each of the two classifications at a site), 2 games Friday (a consolation game and a semifinal), and a consolation game Saturday. Half work a championship game Saturday.

We have no limits on total number of championship games. I worked mine Saturday with someone who has lost count after 15. Some local associations cap number of consecutive state tournament trips (I'm on a "sit year" next year after going the last two years) but none, to my knowledge, cap total trips.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And when an official works these games, how are you commemorated? Are you listed in a record history (online or in a book) or are you given any special patches, dues changes or any such distinction for working that last game? Or are you considered a State Final Official if you did not work the championship game? Peace

Officials who work state championship games here aren't treated differently than officials who work regional games or who work state tournaments but don't get a final. We all get a pin to wear on our uniform jacket next year.