play at the plate UNC vs. NC State

[UtahGolf]

Gentlemen,

Here is the deal with the play at the plate. First off, the quality of the call and the positioning are not in question when Burly is working the game. Additionally, the players on the field are centered on the game they are playing...some of you may realize that the intensity of emotion at the CWS is extreme!

Part of the reason Burly is a repeat CC; is not exclusively for his great calls, great enthusiasm on the field and his superb judgement. The big reason he was on this game is his "game management abilities"....

Burly knows how to deal with 19 year old kids who are extremely intense and very competitive....Burly has the personal resolve to realize the 'game" is bigger than his ego...He knows the kids get fired up on a big play....they did not assault Burly or personally offend him...he gave them some rope in a big game and in an intense situation.

I have read many of your comments and most of you need to get this point...the game is bigger than the ego of the umpire....Burly acted as the ultimate mediator....I can assure you the opposing coaches had no issue with the fact that Burly kept the kid in the game....

Traffic cops who give tickets when you are 5 MPH over the limit are an example of poor judgement and a person who fails to see the situation as bigger than their ego or quota...

Burly stood strong...and he acted as we all should try to emulate...a mediator of the game...and not to always abide by the letter of the law.....

[UES]

Originally Posted by UtahGolf

Gentlemen,

Here is the deal with the play at the plate. First off, the quality of the call and the positioning are not in question when Burly is working the game. Additionally, the players on the field are centered on the game they are playing...some of you may realize that the intensity of emotion at the CWS is extreme!

Part of the reason Burly is a repeat CC; is not exclusively for his great calls, great enthusiasm on the field and his superb judgement. The big reason he was on this game is his "game management abilities"....

Burly knows how to deal with 19 year old kids who are extremely intense and very competitive....Burly has the personal resolve to realize the 'game" is bigger than his ego...He knows the kids get fired up on a big play....they did not assault Burly or personally offend him...he gave them some rope in a big game and in an intense situation.

I have read many of your comments and most of you need to get this point...the game is bigger than the ego of the umpire....Burly acted as the ultimate mediator....I can assure you the opposing coaches had no issue with the fact that Burly kept the kid in the game....

Traffic cops who give tickets when you are 5 MPH over the limit are an example of poor judgement and a person who fails to see the situation as bigger than their ego or quota...

Burly stood strong...and he acted as we all should try to emulate...a mediator of the game...and not to always abide by the letter of the law.....

Great points Utah-Golf! There is no doubt that Burley handled this situation VERY well and ofcourse, his game management skills are as great as his abilities on the field. No questions there for sure & I get that... however,

Personally, I would like to see the Rules Committee or McCartor address the throwing of equipment issue and come up with some type of directive for umpires on handling this moving forward. Pro ball has an equipment violation as another recorse other than ejecting. A warning worked out great in this case but my fear is that this may set a dangerous precedent. For example:

What would have happened if later in that same game, a UNC player would have slammed his helmet down after a close call at first base? That would have put Steve Mattingly (1st base Umpire) in a difficult position. Does Steve give ANOTHER warning to the UNC player or does he dump him? If he dumps him, UNC's coach will go ballistic that his player was ejected but NC State's player(s) were not. Was Burley's warning just for NC State's team or did it apply to both teams? When this happens in the future, are we supposed to issue OFFICIAL warnings to BOTH teams (like we do w/ suspected bean ball incidents)?

This play has exposed some "grey areas" with warnings and this is why I would like to see the NCAA make a Point of Empahsis or Approved Ruling for some type of punishment for throwing equipment as well as a directive on how this should be handled REGARDLESS if it's a non-conference mid-week, weekend conference series or post-season/CWS game. This type of behavior does NOT look good for the NCAA, especially with TV coverage growing as fast as it is now a days. I feel there needs to be a some type of deterrent in place because warnings may not always be the answer depending the situation, game, stage, etc. Hopefully, this will be addressed at the 2014 Regional Meetings in January so that we, as umpires, are all on the same page when something like this happens in the future. Thoughts anyone...

[Durham]

Joe is famous for saying that some times you just have to umpire. I have a simple question, how many times a season do you have a player throw equipment? So why make an edict for the less than 1%?

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by UES

Great points Utah-Golf! I feel there needs to be a some type of deterrent in place because warnings may not always be the answer depending the situation, game, stage, etc. Hopefully, this will be addressed at the 2014 Regional Meetings in January so that we, as umpires, are all on the same page when something like this happens in the future. Thoughts anyone...

Please , if you think that every officials action on the field can be documented, instructed and regulated, then you need robots and not human beings. That umpire was in that game because of his ability to read between the lines of the rule book, and because of his experience. Its a personal trait that some have and some have not. Just like a natural hitter.

Officials will never ALL, be on the same page when it comes to interaction with players, coaches and fans. With as many books, guidelines, interpretations and rules that have been written and re-written over the years, a rookie will handle a game differently than a 10 yr, 20yr or 30 yr veteran. And even then, there will be variation based upon the veterans experience.

I once was transferred to a new location to start up a new office. The VP that brought me there, on the first day told me that he was putting me in that position based upon my experience and performance within the Company to date. He didn't expect me to call him on a daily basis to inquire about how to handle a situation. As long as I stayed within the Guidelines of the Corporation (RULES) it was up to me to set the place up and run the office. If I couldn't handle it then it would look for some else. That was 20 years ago and I still work for the same company 34 years now.

Sometimes you just have to umpire !

[Matt]

Originally Posted by UtahGolf

Gentlemen,

Here is the deal with the play at the plate. First off, the quality of the call and the positioning are not in question when Burly is working the game. Additionally, the players on the field are centered on the game they are playing...some of you may realize that the intensity of emotion at the CWS is extreme!

Part of the reason Burly is a repeat CC; is not exclusively for his great calls, great enthusiasm on the field and his superb judgement. The big reason he was on this game is his "game management abilities"....

Burly knows how to deal with 19 year old kids who are extremely intense and very competitive....Burly has the personal resolve to realize the 'game" is bigger than his ego...He knows the kids get fired up on a big play....they did not assault Burly or personally offend him...he gave them some rope in a big game and in an intense situation.

I have read many of your comments and most of you need to get this point...the game is bigger than the ego of the umpire....Burly acted as the ultimate mediator....I can assure you the opposing coaches had no issue with the fact that Burly kept the kid in the game....

Traffic cops who give tickets when you are 5 MPH over the limit are an example of poor judgement and a person who fails to see the situation as bigger than their ego or quota...

Burly stood strong...and he acted as we all should try to emulate...a mediator of the game...and not to always abide by the letter of the law.....

JFC...ejections aren't about ego. Traffic tickets aren't about ego.

Also, I'll point out the part in bold above. Who's the one with the ego?

[Texas Aggie]

I wish baseball would come up with a non-ejection penalty for this type of thing. In football, its 15 yards; in basketball, its a T. No ejection in either sport*. Obviously, the sports are different, but the SAME behavior for essentially the SAME reason creates 2 very different results. In all sports, you always have the ejection penalty when its needed.

I don't have the answer, but I think some thought should be given to this. Maybe a game penalty later; maybe a loss of a DH for that game or the next.

*I did eject a kid in basketball once for kicking over a water bucket. Made a huge mess and seemed appropriate penalty.

[briancurtin]

PENALTY: If the infraction was on the defensive team, the pitcher has to throw to the next batter from second base. If the infraction was on the offensive team, the next batter must to hit opposite handed. AR1. If the next batter is a switch hitter, the next non-switch hitter has to do it.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I wish baseball would come up with a non-ejection penalty for this type of thing. In football, its 15 yards; in basketball, its a T. No ejection in either sport*. Obviously, the sports are different, but the SAME behavior for essentially the SAME reason creates 2 very different results. In all sports, you always have the ejection penalty when its needed.

I don't have the answer, but I think some thought should be given to this. Maybe a game penalty later; maybe a loss of a DH for that game or the next.

This will never happen, however......

PENALTY: Offending team now has to get 4 outs in the half-inning in which they are on defense, or forfeits an out to the opponent if the incident occurs while they are on offense.

(note - 4th out cannot be attained by virtue of a 4th out on appeal)

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I wish baseball would come up with a non-ejection penalty for this type of thing. In football, its 15 yards; in basketball, its a T. No ejection in either sport*. Obviously, the sports are different, but the SAME behavior for essentially the SAME reason creates 2 very different results. In all sports, you always have the ejection penalty when its needed.

I don't have the answer, but I think some thought should be given to this. Maybe a game penalty later; maybe a loss of a DH for that game or the next.

*I did eject a kid in basketball once for kicking over a water bucket. Made a huge mess and seemed appropriate penalty.

In a perfect world? We could just pull out your phone app and check off the applicable rule and penalty. Once you click "ok", the penalty is applied and the game continues without any reference to what just happened.

ORRRRRRRRRRR! How about we learn how to deal with people and quit looking for ways to throw players out of games like any run of the mill, average official can do.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jicecone

In a perfect world? We could just pull out your phone app and check off the applicable rule and penalty. Once you click "ok", the penalty is applied and the game continues without any reference to what just happened.

ORRRRRRRRRRR! How about we learn how to deal with people and quit looking for ways to throw players out of games like any run of the mill, average official can do.

We can deal with and manage people before they do something that gets them ejected. After they commit the ejectable offense, now it becomes "looking for a reason to "keep them in the game.""

Quite frankly, I'm not all that interested in that. And this from a guy who hasn't had an ejection since last May.

[johnnyg08]

In one breath the NCAA shows a video clip of chin music after the previous batter hits a home run and says that it should result in an ejection even though the well-respected umpire issued a warning. In the next breath they imply that if the game is big enough, then we need to let it go. My question: Does this only apply to Omaha? How about a rivalry weekend? Conference clinching game? Any game in the conference tournament? Any game in the regional? Super Regional? Or are those games not big enough...so if you do EJ, then you'll never see that level of ball again? So how does one who aspires to get to "the next level" decide when to enforce the rules? Or when to bend them?

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

In one breath the NCAA shows a video clip of chin music after the previous batter hits a home run and says that it should result in an ejection even though the well-respected umpire issued a warning. In the next breath they imply that if the game is big enough, then we need to let it go...

Throwing at hitters and throwing masks and gloves into the ground are substantively different. Throwing at hitters is a safety issue and is consistent with the other safety rules in the NCAA, eg, force-play-slide rule, one on-deck hitter, the safety triangle, malicious contact, etc.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Rich

We can deal with and manage people before they do something that gets them ejected. After they commit the ejectable offense, now it becomes "looking for a reason to "keep them in the game.""

Quite frankly, I'm not all that interested in that. And this from a guy who hasn't had an ejection since last May.

I agree Rich, and I am certainly not going to look for a reason to "keep them in the game." either.

However, it seems that many here have expressed the need for every officials action or reaction to every play, be put in writing. That may work well for the upcoming official because they will know exactly what to do, to get to the top game but, it is unrealistic and not always going to get you there anyway.

Just as it happened in this scenario, sometimes just common sense and experience has to be applied. Just using the words, that are written in between the printed lines of the documented rules.