Play at plate

Duke · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 23, 2005, 08:37am

NFHS - Maybe HTBT.

Runner coming in from 3rd on passed ball. Pitcher comes in to cover plate. Pitcher is about 2 ft up the 3rd base line and steps in front of the runner without the ball. The runner had no time to avoid the collision. We have a "big" collision. The runner falls over and past home plate without touching it. Both players lay on the ground for a few seconds and the catcher comes back, picks up the ball and tags the runner just as she is diving back into the plate. I called obstruction on the collision but then think she has missed the plate so I no longer protect her and call her out on the missed base appeal. I now have both coaches coming at me. Defense coach wants interference for the collision and player thrown, offensive coach wants the obstruction. I confer with my partner and we decide that the obstruction caused the runner to miss the plate and award her home.

How would you have made this call?

scottk_61 · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 23, 2005, 08:41am

Sounds like you blew this one,
If you called OBS (which from the description was appropriate) you have to stick with it.
Once the runner was tagged out, you now have an immediate dead ball and then award the runner the base.
.

Steve M · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 23, 2005, 09:45am

Ken,
I really strongly agree with Scott - it sounds like you kicked this one badly. You called obstruction, stay with it and once the runner was tagged out, you now have an immediate dead ball and then award the runner the base. Remember, you had no other play jump in there and this runner never went beyond home, so the protection is still there.

Edit:
I'm rephrasing the last sentence to clarify
Remember, you had no other play jump in there and this runner was knocked beyond home by the obstruction (not by her just passing the plate), so the protection is still there.

[Edited by Steve M on Apr 23rd, 2005 at 06:20 PM]

Duke · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 23, 2005, 10:22am

Well in the end we got the play right because after my partner and I talked we did award home. The runner did past the plate so I was thinking in terms of the player missing the plate and calling her out on the appeal. She missed the plate and went by it due to the obstruction/collision.

Interesting side note. I know how you guys "like" it when someone on here starts quoting baseball. The coach that was on defense during this play quoted baseball to me three times during the game. He was a longtime baseball coach and umpire. Once when he didn't report a sub coming to bat. I give him a team warning. He tells me in baseball he didn't even have to report players in. Of course the other coach wanted an out. During this collision he says he has ejected players in baseball for much less of a collision and once when the ball slipped from the pitchers hand during the delivery. He had a runner on and wanted her awarded 2nd base as the ball didn't cross the foul line. "That's the way it is in baseball." Finally had to politely tell him that the baseball game was on the other end of the field. This is a softball game.

[Edited by Duke on Apr 23rd, 2005 at 11:24 AM]

debeau · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 23, 2005, 02:35pm

This is obstruction .
The player did not put herself in jeopardy by going past the base , the collision caused this .
As to a missed base appeal , possible if she had gone to the dugout but not here .

SC Ump · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 23, 2005, 05:14pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Duke
tags the runner just as she is diving back into the plate.

I agree with you that you ultimately got it right. I think the others that said you blew it badly might not have read the full post.

I know there are purist that believe there is relationship between softball and baseball rules should not be discussed. I feel differently and think that there are opinions on this type of play in baseball that applies very well in softball. Those opinions are on "relaxed" and "unrelaxed" appeals.

In the case you discuss, the "missed base" was being appealled in an unrelaxed situation. In otherwords, she was diving back, there was still action and she was still being played on. In other words, you are right, the obstruction caused her to miss the base.

However, if the obstruction had caused her to miss the plate, and she had made no attempt to return, the defense could appeal she missed the plate and the runner would not have been protected by the obstruction.

I believe that most softball organization's rules support this, within the wording of their individual rule books.

Duke · #7 (**permalink**) Sun Apr 24, 2005, 07:21am

Ball slipped from the pitchers hand on her forward swing and drove it into the ground. The ball never made it out of the pitchers circle. Ball on the batter, ball remains live and runners can advance with liability to be put out.
NFHS 6-2-6

mcrowder · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 25, 2005, 10:28am

Thanks for the non-sequitur, Duke.

On the play in question, it doesn't matter whether the collision caused her to miss the plate or not. OBS is OBS. Once she's tagged, it's a dead ball, and you award home.

Missed base would only apply if despite giving her the award, she NEVER touched home and went to the dugout. They could then appeal the miss.

Robmoz · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 26, 2005, 10:10am

Quote:

Originally posted by mcrowder
Thanks for the non-sequitur, Duke.

On the play in question, it doesn't matter whether the collision caused her to miss the plate or not. OBS is OBS. Once she's tagged, it's a dead ball, and you award home.

Missed base would only apply if despite giving her the award, she NEVER touched home and went to the dugout. They could then appeal the miss.

Not tryin to hijack but want to clarify to myself through anudder example.....same sitch but at the collision R2 is injured to the extent that she cannot get to the plate. F2 tags her as she is motionless on the ground, immediate dead ball for OBS, awarded home. What should I do at this point; call time and beckon the trainer? Is the runner still obligated to physically tag the plate before being helped off the field?

debeau · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 27, 2005, 01:47am

If the injury is that bad call dead ball immediatly and there is a rule to cover that .
The runner is awarded the base .

WestMichBlue · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 27, 2005, 07:29am

Highjacked - but . . . . . .

Is the runner still obligated to physically tag the plate before being helped off the field?

Substitute for the injured runner; the substitute can touch the plate. If no eligible subs are available use the last batter not still on base as a temporary runner only to finish out her running duties.

WMB

booker227 · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 27, 2005, 03:19pm

The problem here is not the call, because you did get the call right. It is obstruction in the case, and since it is then the base runner is safe at home. The problem is the confusion which resulted from the "safe/out" call on the same play. I was the base-umpire in a national semi-final game,when "almost" the same thing happened to me. Girl slides into third, "SAFE!" same girl/same play slides over third..."OUT" a lot of conversation going on between me and the coaches. We got it straightened out, but my confusion and overly enthusiastic call create more hubris than it shoud have. I have since taught myself to take my time on making my calls. play on!