Jose Offerman punches Ump

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by umpref

"This is what I got coach". After you explain, it is OVER! There is nothing else to talk about. No further dialog is needed once he asks why and you explain. I tell them it is over. If they keep carrying on, I explain that I am going back to my position. If they are still there when I get to that position, they are gone. Eject if needed and TURN AWAY AND LET YOUR PARTNERS GET HIM OUT OF THE PARK! If he refused to go, get security to take care of it.

Respectfully, if you believe the local umpires, who cannot leave the country as the Americans did, will take care of any Dominican manager, you are mistaken.

Further, if you believe the type of "security" at Dominican ballparks will assist American umpires, you are again mistaken.

You are assuming that whatever technique you use that works so well for you in the US will apply equally to the Dominican League, and, as in most cases where one assumes, you are mistaken.

This is not the first time American umpires were threatened, contacted the authorities, received no assistance, and left the country. The last time, I believe, was in 2006.

Umpiring in the DL is truly a different experience.

[grunewar]

ESPN just reported Offerman was suspended for life in the Dominican......

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Respectfully, if you believe the local umpires, who cannot leave the country as the Americans did, will take care of any Dominican manager, you are mistaken.

Further, if you believe the type of "security" at Dominican ballparks will assist American umpires, you are again mistaken.

You are assuming that whatever technique you use that works so well for you in the US will apply equally to the Dominican League, and, as in most cases where one assumes, you are mistaken.

Exactly my point. All this has been WELL known about this league for years. Then to go down there and think that the same tactics that work in minor and major league ball here was going to work there, welllll, it is just being very shortsighted or niave in my opinion. Or maybe an ego that needs tempering. JMO

[umpref]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Respectfully, if you believe the local umpires, who cannot leave the country as the Americans did, will take care of any Dominican manager, you are mistaken.

Further, if you believe the type of "security" at Dominican ballparks will assist American umpires, you are again mistaken.

You are assuming that whatever technique you use that works so well for you in the US will apply equally to the Dominican League, and, as in most cases where one assumes, you are mistaken.

This is not the first time American umpires were threatened, contacted the authorities, received no assistance, and left the country. The last time, I believe, was in 2006.

Umpiring in the DL is truly a different experience.

So, we can see from this video that the technique of aggressive arguing, ganging up on the coach, putting your arms across your chest and "making a stand" in front of the coach really panned out pretty good!

Trust me, I have done every single mistake I witnessed in that video, and have had outcomes similar (I haven't been hit by a coach, but many years ago when I handled situations poorly like you see in that video, I was shoved several times).

I officiate any number of nationalities in baseball, soccer, basketball. The body language and verbal language used on players who cannot even speak much english that has PROVEN to be successful is universally accepted.

My experience with pro umpires has been that they mostly want to either be:

1 - Right
2 - "Send a message"
3 - Not have their "authority" questioned
4 - Can't seem to walk away from a jab at them

All very poor perceptions to give off via body language and in how to address somebody you should be having a discussion with, IF you have an eye towards keeping confrontations short and on topic.

It is behavior similar to many law enforcement officers. But, I won't go there.

Over the years, I have accumulated my share of "foes" on coaching staffs. But, I don't let the little stuff influence the big decision. As an ex major league indoor soccer referee used to teach to newer refs, "Set the bar high, but NAIL THEM when they go over it".

I have never seen where prolonged arguing with a known hot head has ever turned into a "good thing". So this guy has been taking jabs at them all game, series, season. Great. Was that game when the umps decided to "let him have it"? Great! Dump him quick and move on. Seriously. All's I seen on that video was prolong arguing with a LOT of posturing from the umps, and ganging up on a guys who was obviously pissed. In confrontation, the longer you allow it to go on, the better chance of a bad outcome for one or both parties. The idea is to get it over with quick.

Once I quit having to be "right", and quick worrying about having the last word, and needing to "get back" at coaches, and quit caring that they want to question my knowledge and/or authority, things got better on the field. I was able to go into "discussions" without emotion being displayed or heard in my choice of words. I can now get to the facts, listen to what they have to say, state what I "have", and if they haven't left yet, simply say "We are done here". If the coach decides to keep pursuing it after that, I eject. It is pretty simple. I also don't stick around after the ejection. I get away and will keep walking away until my partner(s) get them out of the park. I don't respond to obvious "bait" comments anymore. "When spear thrown at head, move head". So, when the coach wants to say something like "That is the worst call I have ever seen". I stare at them and say "Ok" without as much as evening raising an eyebrow. I mean, I KNOW I have it right, so what do I care about his opinion? Even if it was a bad call, I certainly am not going to change it because he doesn't like it, and arguing with him about it isn't going to make the confrontation end quicker.

Isn't that the goal? To end the confrontation as quickly as possible on the field? I will use whatever tactic will diffuse the situation as quickly as possible, even if that means I have to "duck my head" a few times. The idea is to get an idea of what the coach is arguing about, address it, then get the game going again. If the coach does not have this same interest, then he OBVIOUSLY wants an ejection, and I grant him that quickly and I walk away.

[Ump153]

Tell us, Sensei, where have you been successful in handling Jose Offerman, or any professional hothead with a record of violence for that matter? Oklahoma? Georgia? Illinois? Venezuela? Dominican Republic, Portland?

You are the one touting your successes. Give us specifics. DJ's record is open for review by all. Put yourself on equal footing. Tell us how you handled the brawling coaches at Linfield and George Fox.

[batboy22]

Situations are handled different from high school, to college, to the pros. The pro game is a different animal, especially down there. So I wouldn't judge DJ and those guys till you have been in there shoes. That's how you would handle it and that's fine. They did what is expected of them.

I agree with ump 153

[umpref]

This is like having a telephone conversation with a deaf person.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Judging him and putting his actions in one specific incident under a microscope are vastly different.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by umpref

This is like having a telephone conversation with a deaf person.

Really? In that case I'll speak up and use shorter sentences so you can get it.

Oregon is not the Dominican Republic. Geoff Loomis is not Jose Offerman. You were not there.

Loud enough?

[umpref]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Really? In that case I'll speak up and use shorter sentences so you can get it.

Oregon is not the Dominican Republic. Geoff Loomis is not Jose Offerman. You were not there.

Loud enough?

What is your point? I didn't NEED to be there. I got to watch it unfold before my eyes. I got to watch the umpire use aggressive posturing, gang up techniques, and down right challenging postures. I got to see umpires losing control by yelling back at the person yelling at them.

These are all bad ideas in ANY culture, ANY sport, and with ANY official!

Is it so hard to admit that professional umpires have a poor way of handling situations that usually lead to escalation? Indeed, many amateur umpires do that same thing, and it usually leads to similar results.

Geoff Loomis is a pussycat! Scott Carnahan on the other hand!

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by umpref

What is your point? I didn't NEED to be there. I got to watch it unfold before my eyes.

I should have said: "You were never there."

None of your training or experience has involved this situation. If you believe all situations can be handled alike, you are either naive or a fool.

Shortly after moving down here, I met a cop who works in South Central. During one conversation I mentioned "vebal judo". He said, "We have name for cops who use verbal judo around here...deceased."

Nothing works everytime, every place. That's my point. You have no knowledge, or experience that indicates what you think you would have done would have worked any better. That's my point. You are free to suggest that you would handled it differenty, but you are wrong in making any claims to success in a situation you did not handle. That is my point.

Stick to your pussycats.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by umpref

What is your point? I didn't NEED to be there. I got to watch it unfold before my eyes. I got to watch the umpire use aggressive posturing, gang up techniques, and down right challenging postures. I got to see umpires losing control by yelling back at the person yelling at them.

These are all bad ideas in ANY culture, ANY sport, and with ANY official!

Is it so hard to admit that professional umpires have a poor way of handling situations that usually lead to escalation? Indeed, many amateur umpires do that same thing, and it usually leads to similar results.

Geoff Loomis is a pussycat! Scott Carnahan on the other hand!

Good Lord....

Did they kick you out as a moderator at the JJ HUddle site?