Jose Offerman punches Ump

[runem]

Professional baseball is to amateur baseball as roller skates are to an f-16, They both could be called similar insomuch as they are both forms of transportation; common sense highlights the extreme differences, not the similarities. It would be stupid to place my seven year old in the cockpit based on his winning a race at the school roller rink party. Verbal judo is garbage you only hear those amateur umpires, who subscribe to the "we work for them" thinking, talk about. Professional baseball is a COMPLETELY different game altogether. Pleasing "coaches" and ad's is survival in high school and college baseball. Attempting to appease professional MANAGERS not only will not work, it will cause you, your crew, and all other umpires in the league, even bigger and more frequent ****storms. In professional baseball, the objective is not always, and never singularly, to avoid an ejection. Sometimes your job is, simply, to facilitate the argument and subsequent ejection. (this IS NOT what happened in this particular case by the way- DJ handled it near-perfectly) Those of you who think you have a better answer fail to understand the question altogether. This doesn't make you a better or worse umpire than those in professional baseball, it simply makes you an apple running your mouth about life in the orange grove.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by runem

Professional baseball is to amateur baseball as roller skates are to an f-16, They both could be called similar insomuch as they are both forms of transportation; common sense highlights the extreme differences, not the similarities. It would be stupid to place my seven year old in the cockpit based on his winning a race at the school roller rink party. Verbal judo is garbage you only hear those amateur umpires, who subscribe to the "we work for them" thinking, talk about. Professional baseball is a COMPLETELY different game altogether. Pleasing "coaches" and ad's is survival in high school and college baseball. Attempting to appease professional MANAGERS not only will not work, it will cause you, your crew, and all other umpires in the league, even bigger and more frequent ****storms. In professional baseball, the objective is not always, and never singularly, to avoid an ejection. Sometimes your job is, simply, to facilitate the argument and subsequent ejection. (this IS NOT what happened in this particular case by the way- DJ handled it near-perfectly) Those of you who think you have a better answer fail to understand the question altogether. This doesn't make you a better or worse umpire than those in professional baseball, it simply makes you an apple running your mouth about life in the orange grove.

Those of you who confine his poor handling and inflaming of Offerman to a Dominican baseball situation and not a human relations situation are failing to understand how an inflamed human being should be handled.

And flopping on his @ss from a phantom punch in the middle of a brawl is part of handling it "near-perfectly"?? Wow! What would perfect handling be? He not only inflamed the situation, he subjected himself to a serious kicking by going down that way. It was borderline ridiculous.

I love that cool blue type by the way. Very soothing.

[JJ]

I did notice this morning that Offerman got the death penalty in the D.R.
He earned it.

JJ

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

And flopping on his @ss from a phantom punch in the middle of a brawl is part of handling it "near-perfectly"?? Wow! What would perfect handling be? He not only inflamed the situation, he subjected himself to a serious kicking by going down that way. It was borderline ridiculous.

If you watch the second video that was posted which was shot from a different angle, you will see that Jose made contact with DJ's chest with his hand and forearm, pushing DJ backwards.

Nothing phantom about it.

[Kevin Finnerty]

All right, all right. I'll watch it and see.

It was still dangerous to go down like that from a shove or glance or whatever it was. And it was still unnecessary to inflame the situation rather than settle it. Those are my only points. He was too close and he was too aggressive and it blew up on him. He has a higher standard to uphold than any other participant and he didn't go about upholding it very expertly.

I'm sure he'll learn everything he needed to learn from this. He also helped a lot of umpires learn how not to go about defusing a potentially volatile ballplayer or manager.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

All right, all right. I'll watch it and see.

It was still dangerous to go down like that from a shove or glance or whatever it was. And it was still unnecessary to inflame the situation rather than settle it. Those are my only points. He was too close and he was too aggressive and it blew up on him. He has a higher standard to uphold than any other participant and he didn't go about upholding it very expertly.

I'm sure he'll learn everything he needed to learn from this. He also helped a lot of umpires learn how not to go about defusing a potentially volatile ballplayer or manager.

Runem:

See what I mean?

[Kevin Finnerty]

Sorry to be unable to lend a perspective that the umpiring elite can't comprehend or digest. It's not that helpful to see things so narrowly and be so blindly loyal or biased toward all umpires. I'm just trying to give a broader perspective that might be helpful to the rest of us low-dwelling umpires.

Everybody else, see what I mean??

[umpref]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Sorry to be unable to lend a perspective that the umpiring elite can't comprehend or digest. It's not that helpful to see things so narrowly and be so blindly loyal or biased toward all umpires. I'm just trying to give a broader perspective that might be helpful to the rest of us low-dwelling umpires.

Everybody else, see what I mean??

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Sorry to be unable to lend a perspective that the umpiring elite can't comprehend or digest. It's not that helpful to see things so narrowly and be so blindly loyal or biased toward all umpires. I'm just trying to give a broader perspective that might be helpful to the rest of us low-dwelling umpires.

Everybody else, see what I mean??

Larry,

If you will read our posts with an open mind, you will see that most of us who understand why and support how DJ handled this situation have always acknowledged that it is because of the level and the personnel. We have never suggested that this was the universal model. We have never suggested that one apply this to amateur ball. We are not the ones who presented anything narrowly.

It is umpref and some others that have insisted that their method should be universal and apply to levels with which they are totally unfamiliar. It is umpref and a few others who suggest that what should be done in their amateur games should be done in all games.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by runem

Professional baseball is to amateur baseball as roller skates are to an f-16, They both could be called similar insomuch as they are both forms of transportation; common sense highlights the extreme differences, not the similarities. It would be stupid to place my seven year old in the cockpit based on his winning a race at the school roller rink party. Verbal judo is garbage you only hear those amateur umpires, who subscribe to the "we work for them" thinking, talk about. Professional baseball is a COMPLETELY different game altogether. Pleasing "coaches" and ad's is survival in high school and college baseball. Attempting to appease professional MANAGERS not only will not work, it will cause you, your crew, and all other umpires in the league, even bigger and more frequent ****storms. In professional baseball, the objective is not always, and never singularly, to avoid an ejection. Sometimes your job is, simply, to facilitate the argument and subsequent ejection. (this IS NOT what happened in this particular case by the way- DJ handled it near-perfectly) Those of you who think you have a better answer fail to understand the question altogether. This doesn't make you a better or worse umpire than those in professional baseball, it simply makes you an apple running your mouth about life in the orange grove.

Excellent post and excellent explanation of the difference in mindset. However, you will find that there are a number of amatuers here that refuse to acknowledge the differences you point out between the progame and what they call. And some who will relunctantly accept the difference , will then blather on about how it shouldn't be different. (kind of like saying "yeah the sky is blue, but it really should be purple.")

Only in officiating have I run into so many amateurs who truly believe they are superior to the professionals of the trade.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Excellent post and excellent explanation of the difference in mindset. However, you will find that there are a number of amatuers here that refuse to acknowledge the differences you point out between the progame and what they call. And some who will relunctantly accept the difference , will then blather on about how it shouldn't be different. (kind of like saying "yeah the sky is blue, but it really should be purple.")

Only in officiating have I run into so many amateurs who truly believe they are superior to the professionals of the trade.

Pro Guys, when one of your own screws the pooch, you just have to say it is wrong. Like it or not, keep quiet if you can't handle it. Two members of that crew didn't handle a situation very well. You saw nothing wrong in the video, really?

Why was the star catcher ejected? The party line states he was arguing balls and strikes. Not what I saw on video. That catcher was facing the pitcher six feet in front of the plate. Learn how to properly eject a guy. At least let the offender know he will not be ejected while his back is turned away from the umpire.

The only hate comments I see in this thread are directed toward the quality of the game down south. Bull hockey. The 2nd ump did a good job of separating his partner from the conflict. But it wasn't his boat to paddle either. So he caught the short end of the stick. He'll get over it and won't make the same mistakes the next time.

Neither ump handled the argument very well. JMOHO!

[asdf]

Originally Posted by SAump

Why was the star catcher ejected? The party line states he was arguing balls and strikes. Not what I saw on video. That catcher was facing the pitcher six feet in front of the plate.

The pitch was in the dirt, the catcher gave the PU the ball and decided to act like a Class 1 arsehole when he ignored the PU after he tried to give him the new ball back. He finally stood up and walked forward the 6 feet you referred to.

A copy of the home game then was appropriately awarded to said catcher.

Then again, maybe applying the principles of chapter 6 of Verbal Judo would have avoided this....

[briancurtin]

Can anyone summarize this 7 page thread for me in one sentence?

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by briancurtin

Can anyone summarize this 7 page thread for me in one sentence?

A waste of bandwidth.

I even did it in less than 5 words.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by runem

(this IS NOT what happened in this particular case by the way- DJ handled it near-perfectly) Those of you who think you have a better answer fail to understand the question altogether. This doesn't make you a better or worse umpire than those in professional baseball, it simply makes you an apple running your mouth about life in the orange grove.

Near-perfectly?

Maybe at the Pro level "near-perfect" is good enough but, for us low life simple minded "apple" amateur's, wellllll I myself, tend to strive for a level just higher than that. So please get off your high-horse.