Jose Offerman punches Ump

[Kevin Finnerty]

All right, all right. I'll watch it and see.

It was still dangerous to go down like that from a shove or glance or whatever it was. And it was still unnecessary to inflame the situation rather than settle it. Those are my only points. He was too close and he was too aggressive and it blew up on him. He has a higher standard to uphold than any other participant and he didn't go about upholding it very expertly.

I'm sure he'll learn everything he needed to learn from this. He also helped a lot of umpires learn how not to go about defusing a potentially volatile ballplayer or manager.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

All right, all right. I'll watch it and see.

It was still dangerous to go down like that from a shove or glance or whatever it was. And it was still unnecessary to inflame the situation rather than settle it. Those are my only points. He was too close and he was too aggressive and it blew up on him. He has a higher standard to uphold than any other participant and he didn't go about upholding it very expertly.

I'm sure he'll learn everything he needed to learn from this. He also helped a lot of umpires learn how not to go about defusing a potentially volatile ballplayer or manager.

Runem:

See what I mean?

[Kevin Finnerty]

Sorry to be unable to lend a perspective that the umpiring elite can't comprehend or digest. It's not that helpful to see things so narrowly and be so blindly loyal or biased toward all umpires. I'm just trying to give a broader perspective that might be helpful to the rest of us low-dwelling umpires.

Everybody else, see what I mean??

[umpref]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Sorry to be unable to lend a perspective that the umpiring elite can't comprehend or digest. It's not that helpful to see things so narrowly and be so blindly loyal or biased toward all umpires. I'm just trying to give a broader perspective that might be helpful to the rest of us low-dwelling umpires.

Everybody else, see what I mean??

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Sorry to be unable to lend a perspective that the umpiring elite can't comprehend or digest. It's not that helpful to see things so narrowly and be so blindly loyal or biased toward all umpires. I'm just trying to give a broader perspective that might be helpful to the rest of us low-dwelling umpires.

Everybody else, see what I mean??

Larry,

If you will read our posts with an open mind, you will see that most of us who understand why and support how DJ handled this situation have always acknowledged that it is because of the level and the personnel. We have never suggested that this was the universal model. We have never suggested that one apply this to amateur ball. We are not the ones who presented anything narrowly.

It is umpref and some others that have insisted that their method should be universal and apply to levels with which they are totally unfamiliar. It is umpref and a few others who suggest that what should be done in their amateur games should be done in all games.

[hootrgibson]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Larry,

If you will read our posts with an open mind, you will see that most of us who understand why and support how DJ handled this situation have always acknowledged that it is because of the level and the personnel. We have never suggested that this was the universal model. We have never suggested that one apply this to amateur ball. We are not the ones who presented anything narrowly.

It is umpref and some others that have insisted that their method should be universal and apply to levels with which they are totally unfamiliar. It is umpref and a few others who suggest that what should be done in their amateur games should be done in all games.

lol...my first day to go through this site, and what do I find? A couple of self important "Professionals" talking down to us mortals... I knnow my 37 years of "High School" and College Umpire work sure can't stand up to you "Professionals". Guess I should have went for the Holy Grail of Class A or AA Baseball instead of working for a living?

As far as kissing butt with ADs and Coaches...you don't have a freaking clue. I might get Regional and State games in the Buckeye State, but it's never been because I kiss any arse....bank it!

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by hootrgibson

lol...my first day to go through this site, and what do I find? A couple of self important "Professionals" talking down to us mortals... I knnow my 37 years of "High School" and College Umpire work sure can't stand up to you "Professionals". Guess I should have went for the Holy Grail of Class A or AA Baseball instead of working for a living?

As far as kissing butt with ADs and Coaches...you don't have a freaking clue. I might get Regional and State games in the Buckeye State, but it's never been because I kiss any arse....bank it!

Welcome to the site hoot. I'm sure we can learn a lot from your experience.

I must have missed something in this thread. I just re-read each post and I fail to find a single reference to a poster claiming to be a professional. What I see are a couple individuals familiar with why DJ handled the incident as he did suggesting that there are times things are appropriately handled differently in the pros. And I see some others who insist that they way they handle things in the amateurs is the way things should be handle in all of baseball.

I recognize that, at times, the goals are different in game management in pro ball and that consequently professional umpires may do things that amateur neither would, or should. This doesn't make either pro umpire or amateur umpire universally correct, but neither does it make either of them wrong at their particular level.

I'm sure you handle some things at the D-1 conference level differently than someone might at the 12 yr youth level. I believe the same applies to professional umpires handling things differently than how amateur umpires might.

I really don't believe either pro or amateur can claim a "one size fits all" approach.

Again, welcome to the site.

[Kevin Finnerty]

You understand why?

How?

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by hootrgibson

lol...my first day to go through this site, and what do I find? A couple of self important "Professionals" talking down to us mortals... I knnow my 37 years of "High School" and College Umpire work sure can't stand up to you "Professionals". Guess I should have went for the Holy Grail of Class A or AA Baseball instead of working for a living?

As far as kissing butt with ADs and Coaches...you don't have a freaking clue. I might get Regional and State games in the Buckeye State, but it's never been because I kiss any arse....bank it!

Welcome aboard hootrgibson. Although, I can't shake the feeling we've met before.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I flipped 180 degrees?

No, I ran a guy who tried to assault me when I confined him to the dugout. It happened to come a short time after the discussion you cite.

Isolated example that changed nothing in my approach, which has been uniformly successful since then. So, your overly simplistic summary is wrong.

[hootrgibson]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Welcome aboard hootrgibson. Although, I can't shake the feeling we've met before.

May have on the Internet, on some far away political blog...or sports blog. The real me was known to have lived in Upstate NY(Rome) in a world and time far away...but that was 1970-73 during my last days in the Air Force and the year after.

Thanks for the Welcome

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Ump153

I recognize that, at times, the goals are different in game management in pro ball and that consequently professional umpires may do things that amateur neither would, or should.

As do the rest of us mere mortals you insist on insulting.

Originally Posted by Ump153

I believe the same applies to professional umpires handling things differently than how amateur umpires might.

Duh. This is some special knowledge that only you and some select others here possess? Awfully full of yourself, aren't you?

Originally Posted by Ump153

Larry,

If you will read our posts with an open mind, you will see that most of us who understand why and support how DJ handled this situation have always acknowledged that it is because of the level and the personnel.

I always feel like I need a shower after reading your posts.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

As do the rest of us

Not true, Steve. There are some who insist that how they would handle it as amatuers is how DJ should have handled it.

Duh. This is some special knowledge that only you and some select others here possess?

Anyone could understand Steve. Some have chosen not to.

I'll repeat for the final time. Those of us who believe DJ handled the situation appropriately for his level and circumstance have never argued that this would work at all levels. However, those who believe their approach is superior suggest it should be used at all levels.

Which side is really being intolerant?

And, I thought we had gotten beyond the insults, Steve.

[SanDiegoSteve]

It's just your blatant cockiness that fuels my distaste for most of your posts. You may not mean to, but somehow you come across as some big shot umpiring guru, or expert authority on the subject, and that you have a special understanding that the rest of us unwashed masses don't. I am sure I'm not alone on an island by saying this. Most people are just way too polite to say it to you. When people who freely speak their mind, like Larry or myself speak, we are speaking for others who just keep silent. I'm sure you're a great guy in real life, you just seem really cocky and condescending in many of your posts here.