Mark McGwire admits to long-term steroid use!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by alillard88

In the interest of accuracy, baseball may not have had any specific rules concerning steroid use at the time, but in 1990 steroids became illegal to possess without a valid prescription. So, they were illegal, just not against MLB rules.

Also it must be noted that his career started before 1990. And it must be noted that we have no idea if and when he used them illegally (under the legal system). All we know is that he took them. And for the record, HGH is not illegal in this country if prescribed. Now maybe a doctor was not doing the ethical thing, but he was not violating a law that we know of at this time.

Peace

[justanotherblue]

Originally Posted by alillard88

In the interest of accuracy, baseball may not have had any specific rules concerning steroid use at the time, but in 1990 steroids became illegal to possess without a valid prescription. So, they were illegal, just not against MLB rules.

Just ask Arnie how hard that was to get. He admitted using them a long time ago, under a doctors supervision of course.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The last time I checked Steroids were legal when Mac was playing.

Check again.

I like what Bobby Knight said about Gatorade last night that is also a performance enhancer as well. So if "5 Hour Energy" and other substances that give you a boost too, but for some reason we think Steroids is the automatic elixir to make you better. There are a lot of players that were tested for Steroids and they were not much better than anyone. But I digress.

Regardless of what you like about Bobby Knight, when it comes to this topic he is an idiot.

Gatorade, 5 Hour Energy, Red Bull, etc. are NOT defined as Performance Enhancing Drugs. They, despite the billions spent on advertising, are not even performance enhancing substances.

Performance enhancing drugs are, in part, defined by their characteristic to improve PEAK peformance of an individual as opposed to something, say, like cortizone that may allow one to return to the level of performance they were at prior to an injury.

McGwire, according to his own statement and timeline, took steriods when they were illegal substances and lied about it until the statute of limitations ran out and the Cardinals made coming clean a condition of his employment.

He's a douche.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by alillard88

In the interest of accuracy, baseball may not have had any specific rules concerning steroid use at the time, but in 1990 steroids became illegal to possess without a valid prescription. So, they were illegal, just not against MLB rules.

In the interest of accuracy: In 1991, Commissioner Vincent issued a clear and concise edict making the possession and use of any controlled substance by any major or minor leaguer a violation of MLB rules. Illegal steroids were against MLB rules as of 1991.

This argument, which surfaced when Barry Bonds's defenders sprang up, is as invalid in defense of McGwire as it was in defense of Bonds.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Check again.

Actually his career started in 1981 and he was the Rookie of the year in 1987 where he hit 49 home runs in Oakland. I guess you need to check again.

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Regardless of what you like about Bobby Knight, when it comes to this topic he is an idiot.

Gatorade, 5 Hour Energy, Red Bull, etc. are NOT defined as Performance Enhancing Drugs. They, despite the billions spent on advertising, are not even performance enhancing substances.

Performance enhancing drugs are, in part, defined by their characteristic to improve PEAK peformance of an individual as opposed to something, say, like cortizone that may allow one to return to the level of performance they were at prior to an injury.

McGwire, according to his own statement and timeline, took steriods when they were illegal substances and lied about it until the statute of limitations ran out and the Cardinals made coming clean a condition of his employment.

He's a douche.

How were they illegal? Baseball made them illegal? Or the law made them illegal? And if steroids are illegal, why do people that have many diseases and conditions take steroids? I guess they are illegal to take there as well? People that have asthma and other muscle conditions can take and do take steroids. But hey, they are illegal right? And since Baseball (unlike Football) had a policy against these drugs, then I would agree that they were illegal to take as a baseball player. But they were not illegal according to the rules so he was doing what others were doing and playing against players that were also using them. No, we should look down on those that took amphetamines in the 50s and 60s because after all those are illegal too right? But that was a common practice to take those substances in those days and those enhance performance and always have. They took them to keep them on the field in a 162 or 154 game season. I think the book "Ball Four" took the cover off of that facade. So if we are going to be high and mighty about one kind of drug, why not another kind of drug that does essentially the same thing. But then again this should not matter because Baseball decided not to address the issue when it was clear there was a problem. But that is why I cannot watch Baseball half the time. Dumb people like Bob Costas (who clearly was not an athlete but only dreamed of being that athletically superior) actually wants us to believe that people that drank beer did not train and eat very unhealthy were better players than people that train 12 months out of the year and make millions based on their performance. OK, whatever you say.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

In the interest of accuracy: In 1991, Commissioner Vincent issued a clear and concise edict making the possession and use of any controlled substance by any major or minor leaguer a violation of MLB rules. Illegal steroids were against MLB rules as of 1991.

Yeah, that is how you catch them. I guess he should have sent a strong letter home to everyone's parents and that would have set the records straight on other issues too.

Peace

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And if steroids are illegal, why do people that have many diseases and conditions take steroids?

1. Are you really unaware of the distinction between anabolic and corticosteroids? Anabolic steroids are Class III controlled substances regulated by the DEA. Corticosteroids are either prescription or OTC drugs regulated by the FDA.

2. Are you really unaware that prescription medications taken without a prescription are illegal?

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually his career started in 1981 and he was the Rookie of the year in 1987 where he hit 49 home runs in Oakland. I guess you need to check again.

Okay, let's let Mark's statement speak for itself: ""I remember trying steroids very briefly in the 1989-1990 offseason and then after I was injured in 1993, I used steroids again," McGwire said in his statement. "I used them on occasion throughout the '90s, including during the 1998 season.""

Now do you understand? He used steroids after they were made illegal without prescription under the laws of this land and after MLB prohibited their use completely.

How were they illegal? Baseball made them illegal? Or the law made them illegal?

Asked and answered.

And if steroids are illegal,

If? IF?????

why do people that have many diseases and conditions take steroids? I guess they are illegal to take there as well? People that have asthma and other muscle conditions can take and do take steroids. But hey, they are illegal right?

Oh, my God. You seriously don't know the difference between anabolic, androgenic and cortico steroids.

And since Baseball (unlike Football) had a policy against these drugs, then I would agree that they were illegal to take as a baseball player. But they were not illegal according to the rules

Yes they were. Even McGwire knew that. What keeps you from understanding that?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbyron

1. Are you really unaware of the distinction between anabolic and corticosteroids? Anabolic steroids are Class III controlled substances regulated by the DEA. Corticosteroids are either prescription or OTC drugs regulated by the FDA.

Here is the thing, we do not know what McGuire used or did not use. We do not know the doses or the frequency. It is not about what the terms mean right now, because no one has said what he used or did not use and how he used. All he said is he used "Steroids." And for the record there was an NFL player that violated league substance abuse rules and won in court because he was taking a substance for asthma. You can name all the substances and the differences, league outlaw a lot of things that are legal by the FDA to take and not all substances can be taken legally without a doctor's supervision and within some guidelines. The interview I saw, McGuire did not shed light on anything specific he used or said how he got it. He only admitted to using. I guess I would need more detail and you will never get me to think a player that drank and smoked were better off than players that take care of themselves in order to workout year round as opposed to a bunch of drunks (insert Mickey Mantle here) that did nothing but booze and party every night and they had games the next afternoon. If a player is seen in a bar or club and have a game the next day, that makes front page news.

Originally Posted by mbyron

2. Are you really unaware that prescription medications taken without a prescription are illegal?

No I am not. Much that I referenced the issue in my previous thread as well. And we have no idea that he was not given a prescription or not given a prescription. But then again, you must know something the media has not reported yet.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Oh, my God. You seriously don't know the difference between anabolic, androgenic and cortico steroids.

I guess you seriously do not know that leagues like the NFL does not make a distinction and outlaws all those drugs and WADA is even more strict from an Olympic point of view. I said this before, there have been NFL players that were suspended because of taking legal and prescribed substances, but the NFL still suspended those players because these are not legal substances. And in some cases the NFL had to be taken to court to either reduce or allow players to play that were taking prescribed substances. Baseball has the worst drug policy in all of professional sports in this country and did not even have a drug testing program that included PEDs until 2005. And the penalties were minor until recently if caught. Whereas if you did so in the NFL, you were put into a program and might be suspended for an entire season if you were caught with such a substance. Baseball had to wait until they were brought to Congress and participate in a hearing before they took drastic steps to make any steroid illegal through testing. Just writing a letter telling everyone you do not approve is not enough. BTW, players in the NFL get popped all the time for over the counter substances that are deemed illegal by the NFL.

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Yes they were. Even McGwire knew that. What keeps you from understanding that?

I seem to understand the issue better than you do. Because what is legal in the law is not legal in sports leagues or in the Olympics no matter what you can take with a prescription. And you must not understand that those organizations just do not say they are illegal, they test for them. And WADA even holds testing material so when they develop tests later they can find out if those are taking substances that are considered illegal.

Peace

[MrUmpire]

My head hurts.

My mistake. I thought we were talking about baseball and the use of PEDs which are illegal without a prescription and which were specfically banned by MLB. (MLB did not ban the other steroids when used with a prescription.

I'll just leave it at this, Mark McGwire admitted to the illegal use of substances banned by baseball and stated that he used them during the time they were illegal and banned. His admission is clear. He has no need for apologists. Save your efforts and "through the looking glass logic" for the next round Barry Bonds will go through.

Now, where the heck is that ignore switch again?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

My head hurts.

It should, because it shows you cannot deal with the actual facts and want to just say something is illegal because you are carried away with fantasy issues.

Peace

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yeah, that is how you catch them. I guess he should have sent a strong letter home to everyone's parents and that would have set the records straight on other issues too.

Peace

Okay, I'm not speaking to its effectiveness; I'm merely stating that it was against MLB rules since then and that Barry and Mac and all the others were violating MLB rules by doing steroids before the actual individual substances were officially banned.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It should, because it shows you cannot deal with the actual facts and want to just say something is illegal because you are carried away with fantasy issues.

Peace

You are a shameless Barry Bonds apologist and you will scale any height of ignorance on this issue to simply make a case in his defense. Bonds's actions in every phase of his life make Mark McGwire look like a Boy Scout.

A: All controlled substances--and not just those previously listed--were against MLB rules starting in 1991.

B: Unprescribed anabolic steroids have been a controlled substance since then as well.

SEE: All major league players, who used or possessed unprescribed anabolic steroids after 1991 were breaking MLB rules and federal law.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Okay, I'm not speaking to its effectiveness; I'm merely stating that it was against MLB rules since then and that Barry and Mac and all the others were violating MLB rules by doing steroids before the actual individual substances were officially banned.

You can say it is, but there was no policy to suspend or ban any player that used anything we call steroids. Either way it goes, we are trying to use revisionist history to penalize someone that did not get banned or violate any drug testing policy. I guess I should say after the fact that it is illegal to talk on a discussion board, 10 years ago, but we had no policy against such action 10 years ago. That is about as much sense as what you are saying makes.

Peace