Mark McGwire admits to long-term steroid use!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by alillard88

In the interest of accuracy, baseball may not have had any specific rules concerning steroid use at the time, but in 1990 steroids became illegal to possess without a valid prescription. So, they were illegal, just not against MLB rules.

Also it must be noted that his career started before 1990. And it must be noted that we have no idea if and when he used them illegally (under the legal system). All we know is that he took them. And for the record, HGH is not illegal in this country if prescribed. Now maybe a doctor was not doing the ethical thing, but he was not violating a law that we know of at this time.

Peace

[justanotherblue]

Originally Posted by alillard88

In the interest of accuracy, baseball may not have had any specific rules concerning steroid use at the time, but in 1990 steroids became illegal to possess without a valid prescription. So, they were illegal, just not against MLB rules.

Just ask Arnie how hard that was to get. He admitted using them a long time ago, under a doctors supervision of course.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The last time I checked Steroids were legal when Mac was playing.

Check again.

I like what Bobby Knight said about Gatorade last night that is also a performance enhancer as well. So if "5 Hour Energy" and other substances that give you a boost too, but for some reason we think Steroids is the automatic elixir to make you better. There are a lot of players that were tested for Steroids and they were not much better than anyone. But I digress.

Regardless of what you like about Bobby Knight, when it comes to this topic he is an idiot.

Gatorade, 5 Hour Energy, Red Bull, etc. are NOT defined as Performance Enhancing Drugs. They, despite the billions spent on advertising, are not even performance enhancing substances.

Performance enhancing drugs are, in part, defined by their characteristic to improve PEAK peformance of an individual as opposed to something, say, like cortizone that may allow one to return to the level of performance they were at prior to an injury.

McGwire, according to his own statement and timeline, took steriods when they were illegal substances and lied about it until the statute of limitations ran out and the Cardinals made coming clean a condition of his employment.

He's a douche.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Check again.

Actually his career started in 1981 and he was the Rookie of the year in 1987 where he hit 49 home runs in Oakland. I guess you need to check again.

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Regardless of what you like about Bobby Knight, when it comes to this topic he is an idiot.

Gatorade, 5 Hour Energy, Red Bull, etc. are NOT defined as Performance Enhancing Drugs. They, despite the billions spent on advertising, are not even performance enhancing substances.

Performance enhancing drugs are, in part, defined by their characteristic to improve PEAK peformance of an individual as opposed to something, say, like cortizone that may allow one to return to the level of performance they were at prior to an injury.

McGwire, according to his own statement and timeline, took steriods when they were illegal substances and lied about it until the statute of limitations ran out and the Cardinals made coming clean a condition of his employment.

He's a douche.

How were they illegal? Baseball made them illegal? Or the law made them illegal? And if steroids are illegal, why do people that have many diseases and conditions take steroids? I guess they are illegal to take there as well? People that have asthma and other muscle conditions can take and do take steroids. But hey, they are illegal right? And since Baseball (unlike Football) had a policy against these drugs, then I would agree that they were illegal to take as a baseball player. But they were not illegal according to the rules so he was doing what others were doing and playing against players that were also using them. No, we should look down on those that took amphetamines in the 50s and 60s because after all those are illegal too right? But that was a common practice to take those substances in those days and those enhance performance and always have. They took them to keep them on the field in a 162 or 154 game season. I think the book "Ball Four" took the cover off of that facade. So if we are going to be high and mighty about one kind of drug, why not another kind of drug that does essentially the same thing. But then again this should not matter because Baseball decided not to address the issue when it was clear there was a problem. But that is why I cannot watch Baseball half the time. Dumb people like Bob Costas (who clearly was not an athlete but only dreamed of being that athletically superior) actually wants us to believe that people that drank beer did not train and eat very unhealthy were better players than people that train 12 months out of the year and make millions based on their performance. OK, whatever you say.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And if steroids are illegal, why do people that have many diseases and conditions take steroids?

1. Are you really unaware of the distinction between anabolic and corticosteroids? Anabolic steroids are Class III controlled substances regulated by the DEA. Corticosteroids are either prescription or OTC drugs regulated by the FDA.

2. Are you really unaware that prescription medications taken without a prescription are illegal?

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually his career started in 1981 and he was the Rookie of the year in 1987 where he hit 49 home runs in Oakland. I guess you need to check again.

Okay, let's let Mark's statement speak for itself: ""I remember trying steroids very briefly in the 1989-1990 offseason and then after I was injured in 1993, I used steroids again," McGwire said in his statement. "I used them on occasion throughout the '90s, including during the 1998 season.""

Now do you understand? He used steroids after they were made illegal without prescription under the laws of this land and after MLB prohibited their use completely.

How were they illegal? Baseball made them illegal? Or the law made them illegal?

Asked and answered.

And if steroids are illegal,

If? IF?????

why do people that have many diseases and conditions take steroids? I guess they are illegal to take there as well? People that have asthma and other muscle conditions can take and do take steroids. But hey, they are illegal right?

Oh, my God. You seriously don't know the difference between anabolic, androgenic and cortico steroids.

And since Baseball (unlike Football) had a policy against these drugs, then I would agree that they were illegal to take as a baseball player. But they were not illegal according to the rules

Yes they were. Even McGwire knew that. What keeps you from understanding that?

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by alillard88

In the interest of accuracy, baseball may not have had any specific rules concerning steroid use at the time, but in 1990 steroids became illegal to possess without a valid prescription. So, they were illegal, just not against MLB rules.

In the interest of accuracy: In 1991, Commissioner Vincent issued a clear and concise edict making the possession and use of any controlled substance by any major or minor leaguer a violation of MLB rules. Illegal steroids were against MLB rules as of 1991.

This argument, which surfaced when Barry Bonds's defenders sprang up, is as invalid in defense of McGwire as it was in defense of Bonds.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

In the interest of accuracy: In 1991, Commissioner Vincent issued a clear and concise edict making the possession and use of any controlled substance by any major or minor leaguer a violation of MLB rules. Illegal steroids were against MLB rules as of 1991.

Yeah, that is how you catch them. I guess he should have sent a strong letter home to everyone's parents and that would have set the records straight on other issues too.

Peace

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yeah, that is how you catch them. I guess he should have sent a strong letter home to everyone's parents and that would have set the records straight on other issues too.

Peace

Okay, I'm not speaking to its effectiveness; I'm merely stating that it was against MLB rules since then and that Barry and Mac and all the others were violating MLB rules by doing steroids before the actual individual substances were officially banned.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Okay, I'm not speaking to its effectiveness; I'm merely stating that it was against MLB rules since then and that Barry and Mac and all the others were violating MLB rules by doing steroids before the actual individual substances were officially banned.

You can say it is, but there was no policy to suspend or ban any player that used anything we call steroids. Either way it goes, we are trying to use revisionist history to penalize someone that did not get banned or violate any drug testing policy. I guess I should say after the fact that it is illegal to talk on a discussion board, 10 years ago, but we had no policy against such action 10 years ago. That is about as much sense as what you are saying makes.

Peace

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You can say it is, but there was no policy to suspend or ban any player that used anything we call steroids. Either way it goes, we are trying to use revisionist history to penalize someone that did not get banned or violate any drug testing policy.
Peace

Could you quote your sources on this?

I'm just curious because according to MLB and the Mitchell Report, steroids were covered by the ban on prescription drugs taken without a prescription that went into effect in 1971 and then were specifically named and banned by MLB in 1991,

Any major league player who took steroids with or without a prescription after 1991 was in violation of the MLB ban and, if he did so without a prescription, was in violation of Federal Law.

These are facts that are backed up by the Mitchell Report and Major League Baseball.

[Kevin Finnerty]

"Beer toting philanderer"?? You're talking about Babe Ruth!

You are being astoundingly shallow in your judgment of the man who is the single greatest contributor the game has ever known. He was also the most famous and popular man in American life in the first half of the 20th century.

And you're going to take it all away by highlighting his beer drinking and philandering? And you are the judge? You interpret the rules by which all should live? I suppose if we all just sit back and only listen, you can tell us all how to lead a perfect life like yours.

Try to remember your place.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth:
If the Hall is about CHARACTER then at least 75% of the players already inducted should not be in there.


And how can one be as impulsive and imprecise as that, and still expect to be a credible judge of another man's character?