Mark McGwire admits to long-term steroid use!

[JRutledge]

The last time I checked Steroids were legal when Mac was playing. And Maris and others had the ability to take the same drugs and amphetamines during their time (and did). I like what Bobby Knight said about Gatorade last night that is also a performance enhancer as well. So if "5 Hour Energy" and other substances that give you a boost too, but for some reason we think Steroids is the automatic elixir to make you better. There are a lot of players that were tested for Steroids and they were not much better than anyone. But I digress.

Peace

[Durham]

Well, he made a choice to use and it was his to make. The thing I find odd in all of this, was because he used BASEBALL enjoyed huge success both with the fans and in the pocket books. When he used it was not illegal and now sports writers want to keep him out of the hall. I could care less if he ever gets in, the point I am trying to make is that he is now one of the scape goats for MLB. They wouldn't regulate it, they made money off it, and all people can talk about now is that he did use it. We all knew he and they were using and we didn't care then. We loved him and them for it and we gave a lot of rich ppl a lot of money because they were using it.

[justanotherblue]

Originally Posted by Durham

Well, he made a choice to use and it was his to make. The thing I find odd in all of this, was because he used BASEBALL enjoyed huge success both with the fans and in the pocket books. When he used it was not illegal and now sports writers want to keep him out of the hall. I could care less if he ever gets in, the point I am trying to make is that he is now one of the scape goats for MLB. They wouldn't regulate it, they made money off it, and all people can talk about now is that he did use it. We all knew he and they were using and we didn't care then. We loved him and them for it and we gave a lot of rich ppl a lot of money because they were using it.

Exactly, LOTS of money!!

[PeteBooth]

MLB has been a mess ever since they got rid of the "Traditional" Commissioners role and named Bud Sileg an owner Commissioner. Had their been a TRUE Commissioner there would have been testing.

It wasn't until MLB got Embarrased on Nat'l TV during the Congrsssional hearings that BUD did anything. Also, there STILL is no test for HGH.

IMO, Mac is SELFISH as evidenced by his admitting Steroid use AT THIS TIME. Why!

1. I think Bob Costas NAILED it when he talked about the statute of limitations being up. I think it was 5 years.

2. Most of America especially those in NY where the Jets advanced to the next round are in NFL mode and therefore, Mac wouldn't be a major headline for too long. Today most of the talk shows and nation are back to football.

3. He wanted to get this "out of the way" before Spring Training so he doesn't have a big media circus.

Also, what a joke of answer when Mac said that steroids had no bearing on his hitting 70Hr.s He used the "stuff" strictly as a healing agent and that GOD gave him this great gift. He talked about LL , legion and HS ball. What a joke of an answer.

Hey Mac hate to break it to you but Micky Mantel (prior to his injury and bout with alcohol) had as much GOD given talent as any athlete and instead of using booze if Mick used the juice he most likely would have hit at least 800 HR's. What about Frank Robinson, Willie Mays and Hank. You think you had more GOD given talent then those folks. But that is America. people "bought into" ARODS Story and they most likely will by into Mac's story as well.

I too do not give a hoot about the Hall, HOWEVER, if MLB is going to vote these cheaters in then IMO they need to Re-think about Rose and Shoeless Joe who as I mentioned previously in actuality never took the money.

Pete Booth

[Kevin Finnerty]

Rose gambled freely as a player and a manager for years and went to prison for tax evasion. Jackson was a small part of one fixing scheme.

You can't compare Rose's and Jackson's cases. Rose's risk to the game was significantly worse.

[PeteBooth]

Obviously that is matter of opinion.

Cheating is Cheating. It's just a matter of which type of Cheating you condone. Also, how was Rose's risk to the game significanlty worse then those that cheated using the "Juice".

Paul Horning bet on football and was suspended for a year BUT that did not stop him from being elected into the PRO football Hall of fame.

If the Hall is about CHARACTER then at least 75% of the players already inducted should not be in there.

Also, IMO Shoeless Joe did not "throw" the game and NEVER did take the money. He was an innocent bystander who got caught up in the mess.

Pete Booth

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Obviously that is matter of opinion.

Cheating is Cheating. It's just a matter of which type of Cheating you condone. Also, how was Rose's risk to the game significanlty worse then those that cheated using the "Juice".

If the Hall is about CHARACTER then at least 75% of the players already inducted should not be in there.

Also, IMO Shoeless Joe did not "throw" the game and NEVER did take the money. He was an innocent bystander who got caught up in the mess.

Pete Booth

No, cheating is not cheating. That is a narrow and dangerous over-simplification. There are degrees to everything. And that's not a matter of opinion, it's the way our entire system works.

And if you can't discern the difference between an individual trying to enhance his performance, and a MANAGER trying to illegally capitalize on his team's performance by gambling on their games, I don't know how to help you.

Rose violated baseball's sacred code as a player AND as a manager for a dozen years. And he went to jail for tax evasion! And everyone around him went to prison for an array of felonies, including cocaine trafficking! Rose's campaign, by its mere duration, was a series of violations of a drastically higher degree than Jackson's, or any other gambler or certainly any juicer or bat corker.

If you want to lump all kinds of cheaters together and brand them all, you go right ahead. I have a broad and thoughtful approach, and I can't be confined to such a simple outlook.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

If the Hall is about CHARACTER then at least 75% of the players already inducted should not be in there.
Pete Booth

While I am not naive, nor a purist, I find that number a bit high.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

You can't compare Rose's and Jackson's cases. Rose's risk to the game was significantly worse.

Isn't that a comparison?

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Isn't that a comparison?

Semantics.

Here goes: You can't liken Jackson's violation to Rose's.

And I thank you for making me scratch my head and change that.

[dash_riprock]

Rose is a low-life and he broke laws (federal and baseball), but he never bet against his own team and he tried to win every game 100-0. That doesn't mean anything to the HOF suits, but it does to me.

[jkumpire]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Rose gambled freely as a player and a manager for years and went to prison for tax evasion. Jackson was a small part of one fixing scheme.

You can't compare Rose's and Jackson's cases. Rose's risk to the game was significantly worse.

Kevin,

You are right: Shoeless Joe was acquitted in a trial over the illegalities of the Blacksox scandal, and therefore he should be eligible for the Hall of Fame. Pete Rose is a different case, as you state, and should never, ever be considered, which is a great tragedy.

[justanotherblue]

You still have to see it to hit it. Amphetamines have been in the game for a long long time. There are several HOF members, that would they be evaluated today, would not be inducted because of their on and off field activities. They were not the best of men, but, they could play the game. Time will tell if Big Mac will be inducted, he was great for the game, donated and established charities within his communities. He was an multi year all-star and gold glove winner. If you keep him out, there are many others doing great things that also must be kept out.

[alillard88]

In the interest of accuracy, baseball may not have had any specific rules concerning steroid use at the time, but in 1990 steroids became illegal to possess without a valid prescription. So, they were illegal, just not against MLB rules.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by alillard88

In the interest of accuracy, baseball may not have had any specific rules concerning steroid use at the time, but in 1990 steroids became illegal to possess without a valid prescription. So, they were illegal, just not against MLB rules.

Also it must be noted that his career started before 1990. And it must be noted that we have no idea if and when he used them illegally (under the legal system). All we know is that he took them. And for the record, HGH is not illegal in this country if prescribed. Now maybe a doctor was not doing the ethical thing, but he was not violating a law that we know of at this time.

Peace