Catch/Appeal

[johnnyg08]

are you sure coach JM? wouldn't 3B be his next base? This part of appeals is confusing to me between the rule sets

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

are you sure coach JM? wouldn't 3B be his next base? This part of appeals is confusing to me between the rule sets

In FED if you are on or beyond the next base from the one you started from at the time the ball went into DBT you cannot return to retouch the original base, the defense can make a dead ball appeal, and you're screwed. Why? Who knows? No one else does it that way.

In OBR if you touch the next base from your current position after the time the ball went into DBT you cannot return to touch your original base.

In OBR if the runner is awarded two bases from his position at the time of the throw - subject to revision upon a retouch. So if a runner is between 2B and 3B, but has to retouch 1B, you award him home - then change it to 3B IF he goes back to retouch 1B. The rationale is to not do something that would alert the defense to the appeal possibility. If he doesn't go back and retouch he is subject to appeal. If the appeal is made he is out. If no appeal is made he scores.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

In FED if you are on or beyond the next base from the one you started from at the time the ball went into DBT you cannot return to retouch the original base, the defense can make a dead ball appeal, and you're screwed. Why? Who knows? No one else does it that way.

In OBR if you touch the next base from your current position after the time the ball went into DBT you cannot return to touch your original base.

In OBR if the runner is awarded two bases from his position at the time of the throw - subject to revision upon a retouch. So if a runner is between 2B and 3B, but has to retouch 1B, you award him home - then change it to 3B IF he goes back to retouch 1B. The rationale is to not do something that would alert the defense to the appeal possibility. If he doesn't go back and retouch he is subject to appeal. If the appeal is made he is out. If no appeal is made he scores.

Great explanation, Rich! I like the way you worded the difference between FED & OBR. If you don't mind, I would like to use this explanation in our next rules clinic for recruits.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Great explanation, Rich! I like the way you worded the difference between FED & OBR. If you don't mind, I would like to use this explanation in our next rules clinic for recruits.

No problem.

Hope you're serving cheese at the meeting ;-)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

are you sure coach JM? wouldn't 3B be his next base? This part of appeals is confusing to me between the rule sets

JM has the correct answer.

In FED, a runner cannot legally retouch if he is on of byond his "advance base" WHEN the ball becomes dead. (And, yes, somewhere in the rules, there's an exception to prevent a smart F9 from intentionally throwing the ball out of play to "trap" R1 who has advanced to far.)

In OBR, a runner cannot legally retouch if he continues to advance to the next base AFTER the ball becomes dead.

So, in zm1283's play (R1 between second and third when the ball goes dead, but returns to first): In FED, let him run, but call him out on appeal if the defense appeals his failure to tag up at first. IF the defense doesn't appeal, leave him at third.

In OBR, the retouch is legal, so any appeal at first would be denied. The runner is awarded third. (MLBUM has it as something like, the runner is first awarded home, then the award is changed to third if R1 retoouches first.)

[johnnyg08]

makes sense fellas...thank you...hope I never see it.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

So, in zm1283's play (R1 between second and third when the ball goes dead, but returns to first): In FED, let him run, but call him out on appeal if the defense appeals his failure to tag up at first. IF the defense doesn't appeal, leave him at third.

But what do you do when he tries to return to 1B to retouch when he's not allowed to?

Also, wouldn't he be awarded home if he's between 2B and 3B when the ball is released from F8? So do you tell him he can't retouch first, and award him home and let the defense figure it out from there?

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by zm1283

But what do you do when he tries to return to 1B to retouch when he's not allowed to?

Also, wouldn't he be awarded home if he's between 2B and 3B when the ball is released from F8? So do you tell him he can't retouch first, and award him home and let the defense figure it out from there?

Good question. Is it that he would be called out if he tried to go retouch first or, it makes no difference? It is a strange rule.

[johnnyg08]

2 bases from his last legally occupied base. 1B is the last base legally occupied since he has a retouch obligation at 1B on a caught fly ball.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

2 bases from his last legally occupied base. 1B is the last base legally occupied since he has a retouch obligation at 1B on a caught fly ball.

How does he have a retouch obligation if he isn't allowed to retouch the base in the first place?

Have I mentioned that I HATE FED rules?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

2 bases from his last legally occupied base. 1B is the last base legally occupied since he has a retouch obligation at 1B on a caught fly ball.

In both FED and OBR it's initially two bases from where you are positioned at the time of the throw. It's only after the re-touch (if made) that you adjust the award.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by zm1283

But what do you do when he tries to return to 1B to retouch when he's not allowed to?

Watch him do it.

Also, wouldn't he be awarded home if he's between 2B and 3B when the ball is released from F8? So do you tell him he can't retouch first, and award him home and let the defense figure it out from there?

Not in FED, no. Just award third and let the rest play itself out.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Watch him do it.



Not in FED, no. Just award third and let the rest play itself out.

So if he retouches, it's up to the defense to figure out that he can't retouch and then appeal?

Why do you only award third? FED rule/casebook reference?

[BretMan]

FED rule is 8-3-5.

[SAump]

Umpire communication question: Do you "coach" an appeal out of the defense?

For example, players near the base do know a rule has been violated and complain about the runner's action to the umpire, although team members remain unaware of the "procedural" requirement for a proper appeal to be made with the "live" ball in hand.

A) Do you tell the defense you will not acknowledge an improper appeal, thus tipping the hat to the defense to follow up and make a proper appeal with the ball in hand that you will correctly acknowledge.

OR

B) Do you remain quiet and not acknowledge the initial complaint, leaving the defense with the impression you're calling him safe when in fact you're making no call on the "valid" complaint made w/out the ball in hand.