Do you allow the appeal?

[dash_riprock]

The time play was crossing the plate before the 3rd out. There was no other time play. You can't "keep a time play alive." Touching the plate was correcting a baserunning error at a base that R2 had already achieved. All the touch did was prevent a successful appeal. If there were no re-touch, a successful appeal would result in the advantageous 4th out and wipe off the run.

[D-Man]

The more I think about this play, the less likely I feel it can occur. Runner crosses plate, third out happens and runner comes back to touch home. This touch needs to happen before the infielders leave the diamond. Certainly could happen but not likely. The defense moving off the field is a key element here because if the touch doesn't occur before they are all off, the touch would mean nothing (run would count because the miss wasn't appealed in time) because at some point the half inning has to be considered over. So we are concentrating on the window of time between when the third out is recorded and when the D has left the infield.

In Fed. the runner, after missing home, must return immediately. Immediately is user defined and IMO if he does not (and how could he not within this window of time) his attempt to correct his mistake would be meaningless and it would tip off the defense that they could appeal (of course it could also fool them into thinking they could no longer appeal). The other codes do not make this immediate return a requirement. The touch would still need to occur within this window of time (which as I said would probably need to be considered immediate anyway).

All that being said, I would call it a timing play when the runner reutrned to touch, no run. If the call is protested we've got rules support. You've got to touch the bases. Interpretation-wise we can argue that a touch trumps a pass. All benefit of doubt on a missed base play should go to the defense and all burden of fulfilling the requirments of the baserunning rules should fall on the offense.

D

[jicecone]

IMO the timing play ends at the moment the runner either tags the plate or misses the plate, as by rule.

The retouch by the runner is to correct the base running error of not tagging the base, also by rule.

The appeal, also allowed by rule, was not necessary after the tag because the base running infraction was corrected.

Scoring however, is achieved upon the touch of the plate or as otherwise allowed. IMO touch of the plate for scoring and touch of the plate for a timimg play do NOT have to be the same instance in time.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

The time play was crossing the plate before the 3rd out. There was no other time play. You can't "keep a time play alive." Touching the plate was correcting a baserunning error at a base that R2 had already achieved. All the touch did was prevent a successful appeal. If there were no re-touch, a successful appeal would result in the advantageous 4th out and wipe off the run.

I'm with Dash on this one. Since the "authorities" seem to be in disagreement, I'm free to choose (and then let the supervisors rule when the protest happens). But that's just me.

JJ

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by JJ

I'm with Dash on this one. Since the "authorities" seem to be in disagreement, I'm free to choose (and then let the supervisors rule when the protest happens).

JJ

And, of course, the decision could very well depend on whether it's a day game or a night game.

[justanotherblue]

Just as you can have a different ruling on backswing interference, after reading and discussing this play with others, I believe you can have two differnt rulings.

If the runner aggressively returns during unrelaxed action, the time play is/should be in effect IHMO. If the runner over runs the plate, comes to a stop, and as long as he doens't enter the dugout, he may return and protect himself against the appeal by touching the plate, during relaxed action.

As it has been pointed out, there really isn't a correct answer to this one, the rules simply don't discuss or cover this play. So not only does it come down to being a day or night game, is it east or west coast, and north or south. Were all have to agree to dis-agree on this one. And may the first portest win.

[JJ]

You make a good point about "let's wait and see" - it would behoove us to do just that. I'll bet that in the vast world of baseball this DOES happen to someone, and hopefully he'll be a poster and we can follow the trail of darts and flames all the way to his protest committee.

JJ

[jicecone]

I guess this may be a true case of

OBR9.01c "Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules."

So as you can see, Its covered!!

[greymule]

I'll settle this. I just found one of those 8-ball fortune tellers in a closet.

Hold on. I have to read it the OP.

OK. "Does the run score?"

Here goes.

It says . . .

"Ask again later."

I'll let you guys know.