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Old Fri Apr 07, 2006, 07:33am
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Missed base and appeal.

FED rules here.

BR misses first base. If the BR is a full step or more past the base when the throw arrives I signal safe. If he is less than that, I call him out. Then I rule on any appeal. Is this correct mechanics? Also, if the runner is attempting to return to beat the appeal, is this a tag play?

Now at home. What is the correct mechanics for a missed base here? I have been told by a few guys that if there are times to make no signal and times to signal safe. Little help please!
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Old Fri Apr 07, 2006, 08:23am
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As soon as the batter-runners trail foot passes the missed base the proper mechanic is to signal safe and wait for an appeal.


"Professional umpires are trained to render the "safe" signal and voice declaration at first base even though the batter-runner missed the base but is considered past the base when the tag of first base is made. This becomes an appeal play and the batter-runner would subsequently be called out for failure to properly touch the base. This is the proper mechanical procedure at all bases involving force plays. On plays which require a tag, professional umpires are instructed to make no call until the runner legally touches the base or the runner is tagged before legally touching the base. "

At home you need to wait just a second and see what the runner does before you signal anything. If he heads toward his dugout you signal safe and wait for an appeal. If he immediately scrambles back toward the plate to correct his error he has to be tagged.


Tim.
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Old Fri Apr 07, 2006, 08:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illini_Ref
If the BR is a full step or more past the base when the throw arrives I signal safe. If he is less than that, I call him out.
Can you elaborate on this? I'm having trouble visualizing the 'cutoff point' between safe and out. What is 'less than a full step past the base?'
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Old Fri Apr 07, 2006, 09:58am
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If it is a "bang-bang" play and I would have called safe had he touched the base, I signal out. A clinician once told me that in this case he hasn't been interpreted to have "passed the base" so he is out immediately if the fielder has the ball and is touching the base.

Also, what is the status of the accidental appeal in FED? I seem to remember a contradiction in the books last year. The rule book said no accidental appeals, but the case book had a case that supported an accidental appeal.

Also, is the missed first base appeal a tag play or not? Once the runner passes the base, is it now a tag play? I understand that if the fielder appeals before the runner attempts to return it is not, but what if the runner is scrambling back to first? Tag or no?
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Old Fri Apr 07, 2006, 10:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illini_Ref
If it is a "bang-bang" play and I would have called safe had he touched the base, I signal out. A clinician once told me that in this case he hasn't been interpreted to have "passed the base" so he is out immediately if the fielder has the ball and is touching the base.
Cute theory, but I'd have to see it in practice. I dont know how you'd go through all those mental gymnastics in the fractions of a second you have on a banger.

I guess I'm just a simpleton- I call the play that happened (ie, if he beat the throw, he's "SAFE!" whether he stepped on the base or not), observe he missed the bag, and await further developments.

Maybe I'm wrong.
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Old Fri Apr 07, 2006, 10:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

Also, what is the status of the accidental appeal in FED? I seem to remember a contradiction in the books last year. The rule book said no accidental appeals, but the case book had a case that supported an accidental appeal.
It doesn't support an accidental appeal. The FED's feeling is that if he missed the base and F3 subsequently touched the bag, he is out because of the force play. (8.2.3)
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Old Fri Apr 07, 2006, 11:17am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peruvian
It doesn't support an accidental appeal. The FED's feeling is that if he missed the base and F3 subsequently touched the bag, he is out because of the force play. (8.2.3)
FED Case Book

8.2.3 Situation A: B1 hits a slow roller to F5 and arrives safely but misses first base. F3 catches the ball with his foot off the base and casually steps on first base, though he believes the runner has beaten the throw.

RULING: B1 is out. Because a force play is being made on the runner and is the result of continuing action, F3 is required to appeal the missed base and does so by stepping on the missed base.
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Old Fri Apr 07, 2006, 11:23am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peruvian
It doesn't support an accidental appeal. The FED's feeling is that if he missed the base and F3 subsequently touched the bag, he is out because of the force play. (8.2.3)
Can you explain how you came up with this way of interpreting 8-2-3?

I agree with you that the note in the penalty phase of 8-2-5 would apply and indicate no verbal announcement was necessary at other bases, but at first base the runner is obligated to immediately return or be put in jeapordy anyway.

I don't see F3 receiving the throw after the batter-runner missed the base as being 'obvious and immenent' in regards to an appeal.


Tim.
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Old Fri Apr 07, 2006, 11:25am
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Thanks, Justme.

I should have read the case book, but I still see this as a contradiction to "imminent and obvious."


Tim.
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Old Fri Apr 07, 2006, 12:38pm
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8.2.3A is obviously the work of a committee, as it fails to square with the usual FED understanding of an appeal.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is on the Rules Committee's agenda - somewhere beneath the rule about white threads on the pitcher's glove.
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Old Fri Apr 07, 2006, 12:57pm
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Remember that in Fed it was actually an "accidental force play," not an "accidental appeal," although it often looked like an appeal.

If a batter hit a triple and missed 2B, there was no automatic out if a fielder with the ball happened to trip over 2B. The fielder had to make a definite appeal to the umpire.

But if a runner was on 1B and on a hit missed 2B on his way to 3B, then (because he was forced to 2B) he was out if a fielder with the ball happened to step on 2B when running the ball in.

At any rate, I thought Fed did away with the accidental force play a couple of years ago. If they did, then I would think the missed bag at 1B would then be treated as in OBR.
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