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Old Mon Apr 16, 2001, 12:01pm
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Angry

I coach High School Varsity baseball and at a recent tournament our team (visitors) was down by three runs in the top of the 7th. We were able to load the bases and with two outs our batter hits a base clearing double to the fence. Three runs score and the game is tied with two outs and man on second. The homeplate umpire calls time and calls the last runner to score out stating that he missed third and the game is over. What challenge is available to me? Can I appeal the call to the field umpire or do I just have to accept it? The other coach did not appeal the missed base.
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Old Mon Apr 16, 2001, 12:11pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by jclangley
I coach High School Varsity baseball and at a recent tournament our team (visitors) was down by three runs in the top of the 7th. We were able to load the bases and with two outs our batter hits a base clearing double to the fence. Three runs score and the game is tied with two outs and man on second. The homeplate umpire calls time and calls the last runner to score out stating that he missed third and the game is over. What challenge is available to me? Can I appeal the call to the field umpire or do I just have to accept it? The other coach did not appeal the missed base.
Assuming you are in a state that uses FED rules, I'm afraid that you're SOL. Under FED rules, an umpire is to declare a runner out at the end of playing action if the umpire observes any baserunning infractions (missing a base, or leaving to early on a caught fly ball).

It's a judgment call, and, just like all judgment calls, can't be protested.
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Old Mon Apr 16, 2001, 01:01pm
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Originally posted by jclangley

I coach High School Varsity baseball and at a recent tournament our team (visitors) was down by three runs in the top of the 7th. We were able to load the bases and with two outs our batter hits a base clearing double to the fence. Three runs score and the game is tied with two outs and man on second. The homeplate umpire calls time and calls the last runner to score out stating that he missed third and the game is over. What challenge is available to me? Can I appeal the call to the field umpire or do I just have to accept it? The other coach did not appeal the missed base.

As Bob said assuming FED rules you are SOL. However, my question would be? Why did the PU make the call and not the BU?

When bases are juiced, the PU is stationary since there could be a possible play at the plate.

The BU is probably in C (between 2nd and third), therefore, the BU should be watching the touching of bases 1 through 3.

The problem, the PU and BU in their pre-game could have made special arrangements that you are unaware of.

Pete Booth
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Old Mon Apr 16, 2001, 02:09pm
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Pete,

I've been taught and always assumed that the BU had touches at 1st and 2nd and the PU had 3rd and home with the exception of the last runner who the BU took all the way to 3rd. Since the BU is watching the BR into 2nd on this play, I'd expect the PU to be watching R1, R2, and R3 touch at 3rd.
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Old Mon Apr 16, 2001, 02:15pm
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Pete, I disagree. I have been taught that the unless there is a certain play at the plate, PU does not stay stationary on this. He should be a little up the 3rd base line watching the touches at third and looking over his shoulder at the touches at home. He should be in the position to take a play at home if it developes (i.e., not going astray to far up the line).

I can not see, with runners touching at each base at different times, how the BU can see all the bases when everyone is touching them. He'd have to have three heads.

Max
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Old Mon Apr 16, 2001, 08:45pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by jclangley
I coach High School Varsity baseball and at a recent tournament our team (visitors) was down by three runs in the top of the 7th. We were able to load the bases and with two outs our batter hits a base clearing double to the fence. Three runs score and the game is tied with two outs and man on second. The homeplate umpire calls time and calls the last runner to score out stating that he missed third and the game is over. What challenge is available to me? Can I appeal the call to the field umpire or do I just have to accept it? The other coach did not appeal the missed base.
There's a whole LOT going on with a play of this nature. As others have indicated, the base responsibilities are generally split with BU taking touches at first/second and the PU taking the touches at third/home. Additionally, one of the umpires has to take potential catch/no catch of the ball and anything that might cause the ball to go out of play. That said, if I'm the PU the missed base at third by a runner had better be quite evident.
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Old Mon Apr 16, 2001, 08:48pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by PeteBooth
As Bob said assuming FED rules you are SOL. However, my question would be? Why did the PU make the call and not the BU?
The "standard" mechanic is for the PU to take all touches at third base.
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Old Mon Apr 16, 2001, 09:02pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by SamNVa
Pete,

I've been taught and always assumed that the BU had touches at 1st and 2nd and the PU had 3rd and home with the exception of the last runner who the BU took all the way to 3rd. Since the BU is watching the BR into 2nd on this play, I'd expect the PU to be watching R1, R2, and R3 touch at 3rd.
Sam,
I'm with you and Max on this deal.
mick
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Old Tue Apr 17, 2001, 03:51am
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Coach, the thing to remember on this play is that the umpire does not particularly want to make this call. He wants off that field with as little problem as necessary. Most umps are taught you don't call the miss unless you are 110% certain the runner missed the base. If they saw it missed from Cleveland, you must call it.

Very likely, this ump's cup runneth over in his making the call in the situation you stated. You likely had a good official on this game. Give him credit, not grief for a making a gutsy call on what he thought was in the fairness of the game. He would have made this same call whether it goes for you or against you. That's a good ump!!!

Just my opinion,

Steve
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Old Wed Apr 18, 2001, 02:50pm
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Bfair-I agree with you

Steve:
You are right on with your reply. This umpire had the guts to make the tough call. If the shoe was on the other foot, this coach would definitely want this called. It is my experience on these calls, that the offensive team is too busy celebrating while the defensive team is watching for the touches. My partner had a very similar situation in a high school varsity game. The home team losing in the 5th inning by 2 runs. They had runners on 1B and 3b, the batter hits an over the fense homerun. The br misses home plate by a good two feet and the catcher turne to my partner and said hey blue he missed home. My partner when play was resumed, called the BR out for missing home plate. Of course, the coach comes out to argue, but the call stood.

Regards
Phil
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Old Wed Apr 18, 2001, 08:42pm
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I had a good one today.

Federation game.

I was the PU. A runner on first and third I believe. Ball hit to the gap between CF and RF, CF makes a diving catch. I run to the 3rd base side and try to get an angle on the catch and the tag up. Well it was really unclear from where I was standing that there was a catch. The BU has this all the way because that is what we discussed in pregame. Well because of the nature of the catch, the BU takes his time to make a catch/no catch call. He ruled a catch, while I clearly see the runner on third had not left yet. As a matter of fact, he even waited on the "catch" call from the umpire before he moved. The CF throws the ball in, and before they can even make a live ball appeal (the ball was never dead at that point) the defensive team's coach starts yelling from the dugout.

"How did you not see that?!!!! You have got to call that
Blue." Then the defensive team finally touches the base for a live ball appeal, and I rule safe. Then his stupid behind starts again talking about "how did you not see that?" I finally ask after the coaches stops, "what are you talking about?"

Basically the coach is so incompetent in the rules, he thought I should be ruling the runner out before we even had a dead ball. For those that are not familiar, in Federation baseball, it is the umpires job if the runner leaves early or misses a base, once the ball is dead to rule a runner out. I think Fed is the only one that has that rule.

I just thought that was a funny story that I wanted to share. I love my job, I love people.

Peace
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