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Old Mon May 21, 2018, 02:15pm
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Batter Requesting Time During Pitch

Here's the wording of 6-2-4 d (1).

1. If the pitcher, with a runner on base, stops or hesitates in his delivery because the batter steps out of the box (a) with one foot or (b) with both feet or (c) holds up his hand to request “Time,” it shall not be a balk. In (a) and (c), there is no penalty on either the batter or the pitcher. The umpire shall call “Time” and begin play anew. In (b), a strike shall be called on the batter for violation of
7-3-1. In (a), (b) and (c), if the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live.


The last section of the wording SEEMS to indicate that if ANY of A, B, or C take place and the pitcher pitches it's an automatic strike. Case plays deal with requesting time and the batter stepping out.

Someone said elsewhere a clarification was put out regarding a batter requesting time but not stepping out - the "c" option.

So if a batter requests time, doesn't step out with either foot, and the pitch is legally delivered is it an automatic strike? Wording seems to say it is.
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Old Tue May 22, 2018, 10:08am
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This is similar to my post, where i was clearly marked "wrong" for calling a strike, however MY issue was the pitcher had released the ball....... so slightly different



https://forum.officiating.com/baseba...ic-strike.html
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Old Tue May 22, 2018, 10:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence View Post
Here's the wording of 6-2-4 d (1).

1. If the pitcher, with a runner on base, stops or hesitates in his delivery because the batter steps out of the box (a) with one foot or (b) with both feet or (c) holds up his hand to request “Time,” it shall not be a balk. In (a) and (c), there is no penalty on either the batter or the pitcher. The umpire shall call “Time” and begin play anew. In (b), a strike shall be called on the batter for violation of
7-3-1. In (a), (b) and (c), if the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live.


The last section of the wording SEEMS to indicate that if ANY of A, B, or C take place and the pitcher pitches it's an automatic strike. Case plays deal with requesting time and the batter stepping out.

Someone said elsewhere a clarification was put out regarding a batter requesting time but not stepping out - the "c" option.

So if a batter requests time, doesn't step out with either foot, and the pitch is legally delivered is it an automatic strike? Wording seems to say it is.
That's the FED rule. In LL/OBR a delivered pitch is called on it's location. It isn't an automatic strike.
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Old Tue May 22, 2018, 12:35pm
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Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
That's the FED rule. In LL/OBR a delivered pitch is called on it's location. It isn't an automatic strike.
My question is how to read the rule.

If the batter holds his hand up(doesn't step out of the box) and requests time and the pitcher delivers the pitch is it an automatic strike regardless of location? I've seen some say it's not based on a past interp.
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Old Tue May 22, 2018, 02:12pm
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Originally Posted by Spence View Post
My question is how to read the rule.

If the batter holds his hand up(doesn't step out of the box) and requests time and the pitcher delivers the pitch is it an automatic strike regardless of location? I've seen some say it's not based on a past interp.
It's just a pitch. A regular pitch. The batter could recover and hit it. Call it what it is.
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Old Tue May 22, 2018, 02:39pm
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Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
It's just a pitch. A regular pitch. The batter could recover and hit it. Call it what it is.
6-2-4

1. If the pitcher, with a runner on base, stops or hesitates in his delivery because the batter steps out of the box (a) with one foot or (b) with both feet or (c) holds up his hand to request “Time,” it shall not be a balk. In (a) and (c), there is no penalty on either the batter or the pitcher. The umpire shall call “Time” and begin play anew. In (b), a strike shall be called on the batter for violation of
7-3-1. In (a), (b) and (c), if the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live. Thus, Two strikes are called on the batter in (b).


How am I supposed to read the last part of the rule regarding (c) holds up the hand...? Why list that without having it be conditional upon A or B also occurring?
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Old Tue May 22, 2018, 04:17pm
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The umpire "shall call 'Time.'" How can F1 deliver a legal pitch when the ball is not live?

The only way I see that as possible is if the hitter were to do one of those three proscriptions after TOP. If that were the case, Hell yeah I'm going to get a NFHS strike, maybe two. In NCAA/OBR games, I'll call the pitch on its merits, being as generous as I think I can be and not have to scurry to the car after the game.

One caveat: If I am convinced the batter had a very valid reason for doing so: e.g., buzzing bees, dust cloud, reprehensible comment by F2 about he hitter's family tree and/or F1 rushing the hitter...or me. (Then I might have to go to another paragraph in the rule book.
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Old Tue May 22, 2018, 05:22pm
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Originally Posted by Spence View Post
6-2-4

1. If the pitcher, with a runner on base, stops or hesitates in his delivery because the batter steps out of the box (a) with one foot or (b) with both feet or (c) holds up his hand to request “Time,” it shall not be a balk. In (a) and (c), there is no penalty on either the batter or the pitcher. The umpire shall call “Time” and begin play anew. In (b), a strike shall be called on the batter for violation of
7-3-1. In (a), (b) and (c), if the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live. Thus, Two strikes are called on the batter in (b).


How am I supposed to read the last part of the rule regarding (c) holds up the hand...? Why list that without having it be conditional upon A or B also occurring?
The FED rules and LL/OBR rules are different.
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Old Tue May 22, 2018, 06:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence View Post
6-2-4

1. If the pitcher, with a runner on base, stops or hesitates in his delivery because the batter steps out of the box (a) with one foot or (b) with both feet or (c) holds up his hand to request “Time,” it shall not be a balk. In (a) and (c), there is no penalty on either the batter or the pitcher. The umpire shall call “Time” and begin play anew. In (b), a strike shall be called on the batter for violation of
7-3-1. In (a), (b) and (c), if the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live. Thus, Two strikes are called on the batter in (b).


How am I supposed to read the last part of the rule regarding (c) holds up the hand...? Why list that without having it be conditional upon A or B also occurring?
Holding up his hand might cause the pitcher to stop. OBR actually changed their wording to the batter inadvertently causing the pitcher to stop because of a balk caused by an MLB batter saying "time" and that was not a criteria in that rule at that time to protect a pitcher who stopped upon hearing that.
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Old Tue May 22, 2018, 06:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence View Post
Here's the wording of 6-2-4 d (1).

1. If the pitcher, with a runner on base, stops or hesitates in his delivery because the batter steps out of the box (a) with one foot or (b) with both feet or (c) holds up his hand to request “Time,” it shall not be a balk. In (a) and (c), there is no penalty on either the batter or the pitcher. The umpire shall call “Time” and begin play anew. In (b), a strike shall be called on the batter for violation of
7-3-1. In (a), (b) and (c), if the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live.


The last section of the wording SEEMS to indicate that if ANY of A, B, or C take place and the pitcher pitches it's an automatic strike. Case plays deal with requesting time and the batter stepping out.

Someone said elsewhere a clarification was put out regarding a batter requesting time but not stepping out - the "c" option.

So if a batter requests time, doesn't step out with either foot, and the pitch is legally delivered is it an automatic strike? Wording seems to say it is.
What rulebook is this? Without a specific reference (NFHS, LL, NCAA, OBR), a rules citation is meaningless (e.g. 3-3-1-l in the NFHS rulebook prohibits a player, coach, or team member from deliberately throwing equipment, but that rule does not exist in the NCAA rulebook or in OBR; instead, umpires use either common sense, other rules, or additional documents (the PBUC Umpire Standards For Ejection From the Game) to justify ejecting someone for throwing equipment). If NFHS, then the answer to all three options is "yes". In professional rules, the pitch is called a "ball" or "strike" as the case may be, unless the batter left the box and deliberately refused to return while the pitcher was ready to pitch. This situation is what led to the 1-pitch strikeout in a minor league baseball game.
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Old Tue May 22, 2018, 09:43pm
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Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
What rulebook is this? Without a specific reference (NFHS, LL, NCAA, OBR), a rules citation is meaningless (e.g. 3-3-1-l in the NFHS rulebook prohibits a player, coach, or team member from deliberately throwing equipment, but that rule does not exist in the NCAA rulebook or in OBR; instead, umpires use either common sense, other rules, or additional documents (the PBUC Umpire Standards For Ejection From the Game) to justify ejecting someone for throwing equipment). If NFHS, then the answer to all three options is "yes". In professional rules, the pitch is called a "ball" or "strike" as the case may be, unless the batter left the box and deliberately refused to return while the pitcher was ready to pitch. This situation is what led to the 1-pitch strikeout in a minor league baseball game.
It's FED. The rule is cited. Since all three major books have different rule nomenclatures, there's no reason to need to specify--seeing the rule number would tell us which one it is.
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Old Tue May 22, 2018, 10:48pm
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In FED, the rule is very simple. Since a batter must have at least 1 foot in the box at all times, any time he leaves the box without permission, and the pitcher pitches, it is an automatic strike.
Holding the hand is a request for time, but the umpire is allowed to (not) grant it. If he does not, the batter must face a pitch.
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Old Wed May 23, 2018, 02:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
In FED, the rule is very simple. Since a batter must have at least 1 foot in the box at all times, any time he leaves the box without permission, and the pitcher pitches, it is an automatic strike.
Holding the hand is a request for time, but the umpire is allowed to (not) grant it. If he does not, the batter must face a pitch.
The quoted rule support that in the A and the B. What does the C mean when it says "holds up hand to request time?" It doesn't say AND if A or B happens.

So if JUST C happens is it an automatic strike as it reads? Let's assume batter holds up hand to request time as pitcher is starting his motion and the pitcher continues with his motion and delivers the pitch.

Strike regardless of location?
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Old Wed May 23, 2018, 02:34pm
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It shouldn't be an automatic strike. Oftentimes, the rule books, especially on the high school level, are badly written, and result in nonsense like calling a strike on a batter who has not left the box. If just C happens, I am calling the pitch based on where it is. Since the batter has not left the box, he should still be able to face the pitch, IMO.
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Old Wed May 23, 2018, 03:07pm
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Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
It shouldn't be an automatic strike. Oftentimes, the rule books, especially on the high school level, are badly written, and result in nonsense like calling a strike on a batter who has not left the box. If just C happens, I am calling the pitch based on where it is. Since the batter has not left the box, he should still be able to face the pitch, IMO.
Wholeheartedly agree with your thinking. I'm wondering if NFHS has clarified what option C means as far as how we enforce this. If they don't mean to issue an automatic strike with JUST a raised hand then I'm not sure why they even included it since one or both feet out of the box would be enough.
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