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Old Thu Feb 23, 2006, 12:01pm
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Question

In general I think I understand the rule that you need team possession to call the time-out, unless it's a dead ball situation. Usually in late game situations, the team from behind will try to call a timeout right after the make. With my teams, I've usually instructed the players to call for Time as the ball is falling through and, if the situation permits me, I might try to let the official know I'll be calling it right after the make.

Question is this. Assume Team A just made the basket. At what point is Team B in possession? Assume player B5 grabs the ball as soon as it's out of the net, and it takes about a second or so to get behind the baseline. Does a call for time by team A get granted in that period? How late can such a request be granted?

I'm not as good at navigating the rules and case books as the rest of you, but if you could point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it.
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2006, 12:13pm
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Once it's at the disposal of Team B, Team A should not be granted a timeout.

Basically if the official is counting 5 seconds then it is to late. So yes you may be granted a timeout while the player is running out of bounds to start the throw in.

If the ball is laying beneath the basket and Team B chooses not to pick it up then the official will start the 5 second count and you would not be able to call a timeout during this time.
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2006, 03:21pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by All_Heart
Once it's at the disposal of Team B, Team A should not be granted a timeout.

Basically if the official is counting 5 seconds then it is to late. So yes you may be granted a timeout while the player is running out of bounds to start the throw in.

If the ball is laying beneath the basket and Team B chooses not to pick it up then the official will start the 5 second count and you would not be able to call a timeout during this time.
I disagree with the last statement. The 5 second count would have nothing to do with team control. As long as B has not picked up the ball I will allow the TO JMHO
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2006, 03:37pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by PGCougar
In general I think I understand the rule that you need team possession to call the time-out, unless it's a dead ball situation. Usually in late game situations, the team from behind will try to call a timeout right after the make. With my teams, I've usually instructed the players to call for Time as the ball is falling through and, if the situation permits me, I might try to let the official know I'll be calling it right after the make.

Question is this. Assume Team A just made the basket. At what point is Team B in possession? Assume player B5 grabs the ball as soon as it's out of the net, and it takes about a second or so to get behind the baseline. Does a call for time by team A get granted in that period? How late can such a request be granted?

I'm not as good at navigating the rules and case books as the rest of you, but if you could point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it.
Basically, once the ball has checked the nets, the coach has a chance to call timeout before the ball is picked up by the offense. If team B has posession of the right after it checks the nets, no time out. Possession is gained once the team has "control" of the ball. Coaches know this and I have seen officials get tricked thinking that they can grant a coach timeout while the ball is in the possesion of the other team before its inbounded.
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2006, 03:59pm
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Huh?

I'm not trying to trick anyone.

I just wanna know exactly when between the time the basket is made and when the ball is inbounded can a time out that is requested be granted legitimately.

Problem is each of the three responses differs.
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2006, 04:01pm
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Re: Huh?

Quote:
Originally posted by PGCougar
I'm not trying to trick anyone.

I just wanna know exactly when between the time the basket is made and when the ball is inbounded can a time out that is requested be granted legitimately.

Problem is each of the three responses differs.
When the ball checks the nets, before the other team gets control.
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2006, 04:11pm
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IREF and mine are the same

ours don't differ, when B picks up the ball it is in their control and no TO...
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2006, 04:27pm
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Re: Huh?

Quote:
Originally posted by PGCougar
I'm not trying to trick anyone.

I just wanna know exactly when between the time the basket is made and when the ball is inbounded can a time out that is requested be granted legitimately.

Problem is each of the three responses differs.
There's no "exact" definition -- it's the official's judgment as to when the ball is at the disposal of the (new) inbounding team. That's the time when the 5-second counts starts and the time the TO can no longer be (properly) requested.

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Old Thu Feb 23, 2006, 04:35pm
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The scoring team can call a time-out after a made basket while the ball is dead up to the time that the ball is in control of or at the disposal of the team that was just scored on. Rule 5-8-3. Iow, the scoring team cannot call a time-out when the ball becomes live again. The ball becomes live on a throw-in after a made basket when it is at the disposal of the thrower. For the definition of "disposal", see case book play 6.1.2SitB.

Casebook play 6.1.2 SITUATION B:
Team A1 has just scored a goal. The ball is bouncing close to the end line when A1 calls a time-out.
RULING: In order to rule correctly, it depends on whether the bouncing ball is is judged to be at the thrower's disposal. If the covering official judges it is at the thrower's disposal, he/she would start the count and the ball becomes live. In this case, no time-out is granted.

Iow, if the ball is right under the basket and and a member of the thrower's team picks it up, the scoring team can longer be granted a time-out, by strict reading of the rule. There has been arguments made in previous threads in the past that you should grant the time-out until the thrower actually steps out-of-bounds, but I've never seen any rules citation that would back that interpretation up. If the ball bounces away from under the basket towards the other end, I would definitely grant the time-out though. I don't think that the purpose and intent of the rule is to have a 5-second count going while a player is walking in from the free-throw line to the end line. Also personally, if the ball is bouncing around and nobody on the throwing team has grabbed it yet, I'll grant the TO; if questioned, I'll just say that I didn't think it was at the throwing team's disposal yet.

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Old Thu Feb 23, 2006, 04:51pm
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Re: IREF and mine are the same

Quote:
Originally posted by cmathews
ours don't differ, when B picks up the ball it is in their control and no TO...
My bad! I misunderstood your original comment. I thought you were disagreeing with the last sentence of All_Heart's reply referring to picking up the ball lying beneath the basket, not the whole statement itself.
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2006, 04:57pm
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no problem man...
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2006, 05:02pm
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Thanks JR

Thanks JR. Appreciate the references.

Like I said earlier, I think the best approach is to make sure my players have the game presence to request the time out early, often, and loudly and the ball is falling through the net, before it makes it completely through.

Is it appropriate should the situation allow (e.g. dead ball with official nearby) to make the official aware that we'll be calling for the TO after the make?
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2006, 05:09pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by PGCougar

Is it appropriate should the situation allow (e.g. dead ball with official nearby) to make the official aware that we'll be calling for the TO after the make?
Yup, it's not only appropriate, it's good coaching imo. If you can warn the officials that you want one, then they can anticipate your request. Note that you and/or your players will still have to make the request though. If your kids do, tell 'em to use the "T" signal for the time-out. That's a heckuva lot easier for an official to recognize immediately - as opposed to a verbal request, especially a verbal request in a noisy gym.
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2006, 05:25pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by PGCougar

Is it appropriate should the situation allow (e.g. dead ball with official nearby) to make the official aware that we'll be calling for the TO after the make?
Yup, it's not only appropriate, it's good coaching imo. If you can warn the officials that you want one, then they can anticipate your request. Note that you and/or your players will still have to make the request though. If your kids do, tell 'em to use the "T" signal for the time-out. That's a heckuva lot easier for an official to recognize immediately - as opposed to a verbal request, especially a verbal request in a noisy gym.
Good advice. Thanks again JR.
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2006, 06:29pm
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Yes you can call a time out

The ball becomes live when the ball is in possesion of the thrower of the other team for a throw in. In camp we covered that the rule states (5-8-3b)that a timeout can occur by either team when the ball is dead. When does the ball become live??? Rule 6-1-b says when it at the disposal of the thrower.

So, during that brief time between the made basket and the ball being OUT OF BOUNDS in the possesion of the thrower, a timeout can be granted. While the ball is in bounds bounds even if the throwing team has the ball in a players hands, the ball is still dead. There is no team possesion. All timeout and foul situations comply with this.

[Edited by Damian on Feb 24th, 2006 at 12:01 AM]
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