PONY/ASA rule questions

[jmkupka]

Bases empty, 1-0 count, batter hits a dribbler well foul up the 3rd base line. Catcher retrieves the ball, tosses it to F5, who throws it to F1.
PONY sez ball is awarded and count is now 2-1. Is ASA's rule 6.7.B interpreted the same way?

Question 2
ASA 8.7.L (exception) calls for runner and batter/runner to be called out when runner interferes with a routine fly ball, fair or foul. Same in PONY?
PONY 8.11.i has the same penalty when runner intentionally interferes with the fielder's attempt to throw to complete a play. Same in ASA?

Sorry, not finding the answers to these questions in the books.
Looking forward to the new season, and a busy forum!

[EsqUmp]

PONY 8.3.d is referring to a non-batted ball. To rule otherwise would require the catcher to always get the ball and return it to the pitcher, regardless of the situation. The wording could be cleaned up a bit.

PONY 8.4: The batter is out when an offensive team member interferes on a fly foul ball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Bases empty, 1-0 count, batter hits a dribbler well foul up the 3rd base line. Catcher retrieves the ball, tosses it to F5, who throws it to F1.
PONY sez ball is awarded and count is now 2-1. Is ASA's rule 6.7.B interpreted the same way?

Speaking ASA

No, and I also doubt PONY does. The reference is to a pitched ball, not a batted ball. Even then, I would not even consider making that ruling unless it was obvious the catcher was avoiding throwing the ball to the pitcher.

PONY 8.11.i has the same penalty when runner intentionally interferes with the fielder's attempt to throw to complete a play. Same in ASA?

8.7.J.2

[jmkupka]

I agree it's a harsh ruling Mike, but in PONY rulebook, that's actually the example play they use to describe the rule 7.3.e (play)

In the 2nd play,

The ASA equivalent of the PONY play described is actually 8.7.J.4, but even that allows for the runner to be called out only (not in a double play situation):
Ground ball to shortstop. R1, running from 2B, intentionally hits F6's arm as she attempts to throw to F3.
PONY 8.11.i: runner and batter/runner out.
ASA 8.7.J.4: runner out. The EXCEPTION only applies to an ordinary-effort fly ball, fair or foul.


I want to get this right. Thanks for your input

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

I agree it's a harsh ruling Mike, but in PONY rulebook, that's actually the example play they use to describe the rule 7.3.e (play)

That is a PONY issue. I specifically replied to ASA's ruling as you requested.

In the 2nd play,

The ASA equivalent of the PONY play described is actually 8.7.J.4, but even that allows for the runner to be called out only (not in a double play situation):
Ground ball to shortstop. R1, running from 2B, intentionally hits F6's arm as she attempts to throw to F3.
PONY 8.11.i: runner and batter/runner out.
ASA 8.7.J.4: runner out. The EXCEPTION only applies to an ordinary-effort fly ball, fair or foul.

Again, specifically you noted interfering with a fielder attempting to throw the ball which is specifically addressed in J.2 (2012 book). J.4 refers to a deflected batted ball.

I think you are talking about two different things. I only replied to the issue of INT with a fielder attempting to throw the ball.

If you are referencing the 2013 book, I'm not there yet.

[jmkupka]

Sorry Mike, thought I was looking at a new ASA pdf online; my J.4 pertains to a direct hit, not a deflected ball. Let me get my sub-sections straight so I can sound sensible.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

If you are referencing the 2013 book, I'm not there yet.

If you are saying yours haven't been received, yet, I suggest you question up the chain of command. I received direct ship team books for my leagues 2+ weeks ago, and umpire books from our UIC almost 2 weeks ago.

[EsqUmp]

If you want a PONY ruling, listen to people involved with PONY.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

If you are saying yours haven't been received, yet, I suggest you question up the chain of command. I received direct ship team books for my leagues 2+ weeks ago, and umpire books from our UIC almost 2 weeks ago.

Already did. This are a little strange here at this point in time.

[MikeZ]

If the ball is hit and bounces off the pitching rubber and rolls fouls (before 1st or 3rd). Is this fair or foul?

Does it matter if the rubber is 40' or 43'?

What about if it hits 2nd base then rolls foul (although unlikely)?

Thanks!

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MikeZ

If the ball is hit and bounces off the pitching rubber and rolls fouls (before 1st or 3rd). Is this fair or foul?
Foul

Does it matter if the rubber is 40' or 43'?

Why would it ?

What about if it hits 2nd base then rolls foul (although unlikely)?


Thanks!

All of the above are about non-touched.

[MikeZ]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

All of the above are about non-touched.

Yes, all non touched. The part about 40' vs 43' feet was asked since a local varsity coach was telling me that there is a imaginary line drawn between 1st and 3rd. With a 40' rubber it is in front of the line and 43' is behind this line. He said if it hit the 43' rubber it is fair but 40' it is foul (if they both roll foul untouched). I didn't think he was correct, but can't find a rule to show him.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by MikeZ

Yes, all non touched. The part about 40' vs 43' feet was asked since a local varsity coach was telling me that there is a imaginary line drawn between 1st and 3rd. With a 40' rubber it is in front of the line and 43' is behind this line. He said if it hit the 43' rubber it is fair but 40' it is foul (if they both roll foul untouched). I didn't think he was correct, but can't find a rule to show him.

Well, there's a reason why you can't find a rule to show him...

The whole "imaginary line between first and third" thing is a ruling unique to FED baseball. It doesn't apply to softball so, of course, there is no mention of it in the softball rule book.

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by MikeZ

Yes, all non touched. The part about 40' vs 43' feet was asked since a local varsity coach was telling me that there is a imaginary line drawn between 1st and 3rd. With a 40' rubber it is in front of the line and 43' is behind this line. He said if it hit the 43' rubber it is fair but 40' it is foul (if they both roll foul untouched). I didn't think he was correct, but can't find a rule to show him.

In FED there is no imaginary line that if the ball passes it it becomes fair. Look at rule 2-20, not going to type it word for word, but the ball has to touch 1st, 2nd or 3rd before going into foul territory to be considered a fair ball. Now look at the case play for 2-20. B1 hits a fly ball in the infield that falls untouched (b) behind the pitching circle, but just in front of second base. After hitting the ground, the ball continues to spin and rolls between home and first base and comes to rest in foul ground. RULING: (b) foul ball.

[MikeZ]

Originally Posted by rkbump

in fed there is no imaginary line that if the ball passes it it becomes fair. Look at rule 2-20, not going to type it word for word, but the ball has to touch 1st, 2nd or 3rd before going into foul territory to be considered a fair ball. Now look at the case play for 2-20. B1 hits a fly ball in the infield that falls untouched (b) behind the pitching circle, but just in front of second base. After hitting the ground, the ball continues to spin and rolls between home and first base and comes to rest in foul ground. Ruling: (b) foul ball.

thank you! Thank you! Thank you!:d