When do you call "Time!"

[Andy]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

...but if a player can't keep her hand or foot on a base when she is being contacted by a defensive player with the ball, that is just her problem HHUU...

But how long are you willing to stand there and stare at a runner lying on the ground touching the base while a fielder holds the ball on her? Once it's obvious that neither of them is going to move and there are no other active runners, call time and get on with the game.

Not sure what HHUU stands for, though.

[chicago11]

I agree with Dakota. Do some umps actually allow a defense to call time with the ball still out in the outfield? There is still a lot that can happen with a ball in the outfield!

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by Andy

But how long are you willing to stand there and stare at a runner lying on the ground touching the base while a fielder holds the ball on her? Once it's obvious that neither of them is going to move and there are no other active runners, call time and get on with the game.

Not sure what HHUU stands for, though.

I have never has a situation where the D player fails to realize the play is over. I guess if I did, I might call time. The O player would probably request it anyway. I just don't view those kind of outs as cheap

HHUU = YER OUT

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

The idea that LBR outs or that outs on a play where the runner fails to maintain contact with a base after a play are cheap outs is just plain wrong. We are all calling our game by the rules that we have and the players need to play by those rules.

Never was it suggested that an umpire ignore a rule. I want the rule GONE. I refer to a cheap out as one which was called using a specific rule for a violation that had zero bearing on the game. I'm not suggesting we ignore the rule. I'm suggesting the rule be eliminated.

If I deem that the defense caused the runner to lose contact, I don't call the out but if a player can't keep her hand or foot on a base when she is being contacted by a defensive player with the ball, that is just her problem

WTF did this come from?

I personally think a game without time being called after every play moves along faster because the girls get the ball to the circle to stop play.

Really? Is that why most SP games are done in 20-30 minutes less than many, if not most, FP games without an active clock?

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Never was it suggested that an umpire ignore a rule. I want the rule GONE. I refer to a cheap out as one which was called using a specific rule for a violation that had zero bearing on the game. I'm not suggesting we ignore the rule. I'm suggesting the rule be eliminated.

And you are entitled to your opinion. The LBR is a good rule that holds the baserunners on a small diamond.

WTF did this come from?

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

When all play is stopped.. I call time and say "ok throw the ball in lets go"...
At a play at the base I also call time when the play is over so they dont stand there holding their mit on the runner hoping for some cheap out. "Time - you can get up".. thats the end of it.

Originally Posted by blue in

I am a strong proponent of the quick time on the pick off play (as long as the ball is caught and there are no other runners going anywhere). That way, you don't that caught in a situation where a runner, who was already back to the base, either gets up and looses contact or gets pushed off the bag by a defensive player. Just got to be careful not to come up with that time and get caught with another runner trying to grab another base.

Why do you feel it necessary to drop an F-Bomb even if it is abbreviated. Not everyone here appreciates that stuff. I realize that most of the posters here are adults who have heard these things before but that is still no reason to throw out gratuitous profanity. You are an umpire and you were in the military. Self control is a virtue well used on and off the field.

Really? Is that why most SP games are done in 20-30 minutes less than many, if not most, FP games without an active clock?

I don't do SP but when I played, there were way fewer pitches thrown since most of us put the ball in play on the first or second pitch. Lots of pop ups and ground outs? Players in a hurry to get to the coolers?

As an umpire, you have the right to call time whenever you want to call it and if that is what floats your boat, by all means call time

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

And you are entitled to your opinion. The LBR is a good rule that holds the baserunners on a small diamond.

The LBR is an antiquated rule that has little to no bearing on, nor does it add anything to today's game. It was introduced when most softball teams were coached with a baseball and old school mentality.

Dropping the LBR and killing the ball at the end of all obvious play takes absolutely nothing away from the game except to the egocentrics that have a difficult time with any change that wasn't their idea.

And I'm still waiting for a good reason why this change shouldn't take place.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The LBR is an antiquated rule that has little to no bearing on, nor does it add anything to today's game. It was introduced when most softball teams were coached with a baseball and old school mentality.

Care to elaborate on this? What "baseball and old school mentality" resulted in the LBR being added to the book?

I assure you, my objection to slowpitchalizing fastpitch wrt killing the ball between plays has nothing to do with ego or who is proposing the idea. Now, I have no idea what manner of egos, etc., have to be dealth with on the official rules committees...

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

...even if it is abbreviated.

Just think "fudge" and you'll be OK.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Care to elaborate on this? What "baseball and old school mentality" resulted in the LBR being added to the book?

Too many baseball coaches ended up with girl's FP (as least in my area, usually the male gym teacher). Many didn't know the game or how to deal with it or the girls, so they just acted like it was baseball. Baseball is a "live" ball game, but the runners are not confined to the bases and can move about the basepaths as they dare choose. In softball, the runner cannot do this.

The LBR just as well be an acronym for "Leash the Base Runner" as the purpose was to halt all the constant challenges on the basepaths when the pitcher had the ball and to "tie" the runner to the base until the next pitch.

So, this brings me back to my train of thought. If the runner is supposed to stay on the base when the pitcher has the ball in the circle, what can possibly happen?

Can the runner steal? No. Can the runner leave the base early on a pitch? No. Can the runner clear away or smooth an area which may be dangerous? NO. So, why not just call time, move into position and pitch the ball?

You have the same result as if the ball was live, NOTHING!

This is where the "old school" or the "if we change that, the world will collapse" group which just cannot accept change. No good reason it cannot be changed, it just can't because.....because....well, because......

Still waiting for that reason.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Just think "fudge" and you'll be OK.

For as much as anyone knows, that could be exactly what I meant.

Maybe my mind wasn't the one in the gutter after all?

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I don't agree with this philosophy at all. It is the player's game. Especially in a timed game, however they want to spend the time is their choice. The game does not end sooner because of these time outs. You may get a few more at-bats, but that is about it. OTOH, you dumb down the game by removing the requirement that the outfielders actually be able to throw the ball in to someone who will catch it. JMO.

wrong on count 1
and
irrelevent on count 2.

All the factors combined that one does during a game A) speeds or slows up a game OR you can get more game in in the alloted time.

Do you let pitchers take 5 mins to warm up because its a timed game.. so it doesnt really matter how long they warm up, you'll be there the same amount of time.

In my mind, my methods are proven.. because I talk with other umpires who say "wow how did you get in all 7 innings in a buck 20.. well cuz i hustle their buts up.. thats how. Im hustling, they are hustling.

Pitcher/catcher lag getting out to warm up, you get two warm ups (or whatever).. you slowly wander in from left field because you dont want to throw it while everyone is waiting around.. I call time and tell you to throw in the ball.. you slide into 2nd and the SS is sitting there holding a mit on you.. everyone waiting around.. I call time, tell you to get up.. you wander around between pitches, I tell you to get in the box, lets go! The plays over, we move on.

Dumbing down the game.. well if you say so, but I'm confident the blues like yourself out there more than make up for my dumbing down the game with your strict adherence to the code of "its your game, lag as much as you want, the clocks the same to me".

Of course, in a 7 inning no time game with both of us working 2 fields, i would probably have my hot dog finished and half my soda done and my sandals on relaxing in the shade, by the time you got off the field.. it happens all the time

But you would have the satisfaction of knowing the players you just umpired were smarter than mine.

Fair trade IMO. I'll have to learn to live with that.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The LBR just as well be an acronym for "Leash the Base Runner" as the purpose was to halt all the constant challenges on the basepaths when the pitcher had the ball and to "tie" the runner to the base until the next pitch.

If the rule was to halt the constant challenges of cat and mouse games, why limit it to the pitcher? I would suggest that it was not to stop cat and mouse, because you can still have plenty of cat and mouse with the 8 other D players.

Fact of the matter is, the rule is simply a fastpitch baserunning rule, that requires that the runner to be on a base prior to the pitch, and therefore must get to a base when the pitcher is ready to pitch.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

So, this brings me back to my train of thought. If the runner is supposed to stay on the base when the pitcher has the ball in the circle, what can possibly happen?

Can the runner steal? No. Can the runner leave the base early on a pitch? No. Can the runner clear away or smooth an area which may be dangerous? NO. So, why not just call time, move into position and pitch the ball?
You have the same result as if the ball was live, NOTHING!

Although your questions and answers are correct, there are a number of other things that CAN happen, such as the pitcher attempting to pick off the runner, and possibly throw the ball away. The pitcher can feign a play which means that P is NOT ready to pitch, thereby suspending the LBR, until the P is ready to pitch.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

This is where the "old school" or the "if we change that, the world will collapse" group which just cannot accept change. No good reason it cannot be changed, it just can't because.....because....well, because......

Still waiting for that reason.

Fastpitch is a live ball game. That is the reason.

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Can the runner steal? No. Can the runner leave the base early on a pitch? No. Can the runner clear away or smooth an area which may be dangerous? NO. So, why not just call time, move into position and pitch the ball?
You have the same result as if the ball was live, NOTHING!

Wrong, then you have high school women dancing off the bases like they are playing little league baseball between every pitch. You end up with more throwing errors as D players are tempted to play the runners instead of returning the ball to the circle. This makes for a l o n g e r less disciplined game.

To call time after every play removes the responsibility of the runners to pay attention to their relative position in respect to the ball and would thereby create a sloppy lackadaisical game. All of this would make your game l o n g e r .

BTW any umpire that would not allow a player to address a safety issue on the field doesn't need to be out there. I would grant time for that as I am sure that everyone on this forum would.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

If the rule was to halt the constant challenges of cat and mouse games, why limit it to the pitcher? I would suggest that it was not to stop cat and mouse, because you can still have plenty of cat and mouse with the 8 other D players.

Fact of the matter is, the rule is simply a fastpitch baserunning rule, that requires that the runner to be on a base prior to the pitch, and therefore must get to a base when the pitcher is ready to pitch.



Although your questions and answers are correct, there are a number of other things that CAN happen, such as the pitcher attempting to pick off the runner, and possibly throw the ball away. The pitcher can feign a play which means that P is NOT ready to pitch, thereby suspending the LBR, until the P is ready to pitch.



Fastpitch is a live ball game. That is the reason.

Its not a live ball game in the sense that baseball is. When the pitcher has the ball in the circle runners gotta get on a bag.. one there, i call time and take my spot behind the catcher (presuming I've moved to some position outside the plate as is usually the case)..

Its not a live ball game then.. cuz this guy wearing blue, namely me, has called time, in accordance with the power invested in me.

At any rate.. to NOT call time because conceivably leaving the ball "live" could allow a pitcher to attempt to pick off a runner who is standing on a bag.. is kind of laughable.. I'm not waiting around game after game inning after inning for something thats not going to happen in any intelligent ball.. theres a game to be played.

You might be confusing softball with baseball though, dunno.

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

For as much as anyone knows, that could be exactly what I meant.

Maybe my mind wasn't the one in the gutter after all?

What exactly did you mean?
Where exactly was your mind?