When do you call "Time!"

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Its not a live ball game in the sense that baseball is. When the pitcher has the ball in the circle runners gotta get on a bag.. one there, i call time and take my spot behind the catcher (presuming I've moved to some position outside the plate as is usually the case)..

Its not a live ball game then.. cuz this guy wearing blue, namely me, has called time, in accordance with the power invested in me.

At any rate.. to NOT call time because conceivably leaving the ball "live" could allow a pitcher to attempt to pick off a runner who is standing on a bag.. is kind of laughable.. I'm not waiting around game after game inning after inning for something thats not going to happen in any intelligent ball.. theres a game to be played.

You might be confusing softball with baseball though, dunno.

Why is it wrong to give the runner the responsibility to stay put?
It is a live ball game in the sense that the runners are locked to a base with the liability to be put out if they fail to maintain contact with the base while F1 has the ball in the circle. Why is that a problem? If the D messes up and doesn't get the ball in the circle or F1 makes a play on a runner, another runner can advance. If the O messes up on the LBR they have earned an out. Why is that a problem?
There is nothing cheap about it. The batter is out if she contacts the ball ouside the batter's box. The runner is out if she leaves the base. You just have to stay in the rules defined perameters of your responsibility. Why is that a problem?

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

Why is it wrong to give the runner the responsibility to stay put?
It is a live ball game in the sense that the runners are locked to a base with the liability to be put out if they fail to maintain contact with the base while F1 has the ball in the circle. Why is that a problem? If the D messes up and doesn't get the ball in the circle or F1 makes a play on a runner, another runner can advance. If the O messes up on the LBR they have earned an out. Why is that a problem?
There is nothing cheap about it. The batter is out if she contacts the ball ouside the batter's box. The runner is out if she leaves the base. You just have to stay in the rules defined perameters of your responsibility. Why is that a problem?

Luckily for me ASA says I can call time, so no problem.


OHHHHH

another thing I do.... this one will really chap the hides of the purists im sure..

If they are using a Courtesy Runner.. I dont wait for the C/R to get all the way to the base and do a little "tap in" to change spots.. I tell the runner "you can come off go on in" .. then they typically will do their little hand slap about at the pitchers circle.. as opposed to waiting the extra time for the C/R to get all the way to the base then the former runner to get all the way into the dug out..

They meet half way! Theres 20 seconds saved! woot.

I suppose that if I did like the lonely boredome of sitting around perpetually waiting on players, I would do more baseball than I do.

I am impressed at your etternal vigilance of waiting and waiting, hour after hour, inning after inning, game after game, for the off chance that a pitcher might try to pick off a runner that is not allowed to leave the bag.

thats heart man, good on you.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

If the rule was to halt the constant challenges of cat and mouse games, why limit it to the pitcher? I would suggest that it was not to stop cat and mouse, because you can still have plenty of cat and mouse with the 8 other D players.

Fact of the matter is, the rule is simply a fastpitch baserunning rule, that requires that the runner to be on a base prior to the pitch, and therefore must get to a base when the pitcher is ready to pitch.

Well, the next time I talk to one of the co-authors of the rule, Tom Mason, I'll tell him he was wrong.

Although your questions and answers are correct, there are a number of other things that CAN happen, such as the pitcher attempting to pick off the runner, and possibly throw the ball away. The pitcher can feign a play which means that P is NOT ready to pitch, thereby suspending the LBR, until the P is ready to pitch.

Yeah, if the pitcher is coached by an idiot. Let me see, the runner is on the base, so the pitcher is going to feign a throw that would allow the runner to possibly advance. Yeah, that's the ticket. That's as ridiculous as all the cat and mouse games played between the catcher and runners. Throw the damn thing back to the pitcher! You want to know where time is wasted, there's a good chunk.

Fastpitch is a live ball game. That is the reason.

If it were a live ball game, the runners could advance at any time. Well, they cannot and I'm still waiting for a good reason not to call time.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

wrong on count 1
and
irrelevent on count 2.

I have no idea what "counts" you are referring to, but you do seem to be intense in your reply.

I would help, though, if you replied to what I actually said, instead of going into a long diatribe, most of which I said nothing about. Here is what I was referring to in your previous post. Maybe you should go back and read it again.

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I agree with this.. especially timed tourneys.. I speed up by calling time so we dont have to wait for the outfielder to slowly walk the ball in and other crap.

When all play is stopped.. I call time and say "ok throw the ball in lets go"...

Note: you are advocating killing the ball while it is still in the outfield, just because you apparently do not have the patience to wait on the players to get the ball in. THAT is what I do not agree with. As to the rest of your post...

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Do you let pitchers take 5 mins to warm up because its a timed game.. so it doesnt really matter how long they warm up, you'll be there the same amount of time.

Of course not. There is a rule dealing with this. Don't be silly.

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

In my mind, my methods are proven..

Proven to what? Oh, yeah, we do get to that at the end.

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

you slowly wander in from left field because you dont want to throw it while everyone is waiting around.. I call time and tell you to throw in the ball..

I've never had this happen.

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

you slide into 2nd and the SS is sitting there holding a mit on you.. everyone waiting around.. I call time, tell you to get up..

I don't let this go on too long, either.

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

you wander around between pitches, I tell you to get in the box, lets go! The plays over, we move on.

Again, there is a rule to deal with this. It is not the same thing at all as killing the ball with the ball in the outfield.

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Of course, in a 7 inning no time game with both of us working 2 fields, i would probably have my hot dog finished and half my soda done and my sandals on relaxing in the shade, by the time you got off thefield.. it happens all the time

Which is, of course, why we are all out there, to relax in our sandals eating hot dogs and swapping stories.

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Fair trade IMO.

Of this I have no doubt - this this in your opinion, that is.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

If they are using a Courtesy Runner.. I dont wait for the C/R to get all the way to the base and do a little "tap in" to change spots.. I tell the runner "you can come off go on in" .. then they typically will do their little hand slap about at the pitchers circle.. as opposed to waiting the extra time for the C/R to get all the way to the base then the former runner to get all the way into the dug out..

You sure are impressed with yourself, aren't you? I don't want to take any wind out of your sails or anything, but the ball is already dead. You're not breaking any new ground here. I hurry them along, too.

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Luckily for me ASA says I can call time, so no problem.


OHHHHH

another thing I do.... this one will really chap the hides of the purists im sure..

If they are using a Courtesy Runner.. I dont wait for the C/R to get all the way to the base and do a little "tap in" to change spots.. I tell the runner "you can come off go on in" .. then they typically will do their little hand slap about at the pitchers circle.. as opposed to waiting the extra time for the C/R to get all the way to the base then the former runner to get all the way into the dug out..

They meet half way! Theres 20 seconds saved! woot.

I suppose that if I did like the lonely boredome of sitting around perpetually waiting on players, I would do more baseball than I do.

I am impressed at your etternal vigilance of waiting and waiting, hour after hour, inning after inning, game after game, for the off chance that a pitcher might try to pick off a runner that is not allowed to leave the bag.

thats heart man, good on you.

Thanks for the kudoes

When a coach asks for time to put in the CR, at least around here, the runner usually trots off as soon as she knows that she is being replaced and we are waiting for the CR to find her helmet.
It almost sounds like you don't call LBR outs but I don't think that is what you would be saying.
Calling time doesn't help anything. IM made a good argument earlier that there is no essential difference in outcomes but there is the potential difference. Keeping the ball live forces the players to concentrate and the umps to watch the action.

If there is no essential difference, why lose the LBR and the potential outs or plays that result from it.
As I told IM in post 50 If calling time floats your boat, then by all means call time.

BTW What is woot??

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Its not a live ball game then.. cuz this guy wearing blue, namely me, has called time, in accordance with the power invested in me.

Your game certainly isn't. Note: YOUR game.

You seem to want to extend the LBR to any defensive player who has the ball and, in your judgment, nothing SHOULD happen at this point.

I'm sorry, but that is not the way the rules are written. I would guess that even such a strong advocate as Mike of changing the rules to kill the ball more like the SP model does not actually DO this presently during FP games. He wants the rule changed, but since it hasn't been changed (if I understand his postings on this subject) he does not unilaterally change them for the FP games he umpires.

IMO, you are abusing your authority by killing the ball so frequently. But, on balance, you do get to enjoy your soda and dog.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Maybe you should go back and read it again. Note: you are advocating killing the ball while it is still in the outfield, just because you apparently do not have the patience to wait on the players to get the ball in. THAT is what I do not agree with. As to the rest of your post...

Depends on where they are in the "outfield" .. the grass right behind SS/2b is outfield and I will certainly kill the ball if play is stopped, players are on their bags, and we are just in wait mode for the ball to be walked into the pitcher.

If the balls at the fence.. well obviously the plays not dead so its not killed. Ya gotta use common sense when efficiently officiating softball so as to not rob or hurt the plalyers. It takes experience.

I could wait around for pitchers to pick off runners standing on the bag and other stuff like you and others advocate, I just chose to officiate my games more efficiently than that.

Never had a complaint from players/coaches on my methods in those regards either. Few complaints when i shave warm-up pitches because they lag, other than that, people like to see the games move. After a few innings, people get the feel for how its done with me and they are hustling. I hustle they hustle, we get the game done OR play more game in the allotted time.. consistently.

I dont agree that softball is a live ball sport in the same sense that little ball is - the games are night and day in that respect and theres no need to pretend differently.

Softball is not baseball.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

...It takes experience.

Your replies are full of these little dingers. I guess that makes your argument, in your mind, anyway.

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

...Softball is not baseball.

I never said one word about baseball. Maybe you're the one stuck on this comparison, and, since leadoffs are not allowed, the ball may as well be dead whenever the mood hits the umpire.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Your game certainly isn't. Note: YOUR game.

You seem to want to extend the LBR to any defensive player who has the ball and, in your judgment, nothing SHOULD happen at this point.

I'm sorry, but that is not the way the rules are written. I would guess that even such a strong advocate as Mike of changing the rules to kill the ball more like the SP model does not actually DO this presently during FP games. He wants the rule changed, but since it hasn't been changed (if I understand his postings on this subject) he does not unilaterally change them for the FP games he umpires.

IMO, you are abusing your authority by killing the ball so frequently. But, on balance, you do get to enjoy your soda and dog.

Hmmm.. must be why I'm saddled with the responsibility of the plate in well over 90% of the FP tournies I work.. the hot dogs and abuse of authority..

IMO waiting around for a pitcher to pick off a batter standing on bag is laughable.

Even though its within the rules that a pitcher is allowed to try to pick off a batter standing on a bag or in the rules I could wait an undetermined amount of time with the Def player holding their tag on the runner.. I suppose I could even refuse to grant time to the runner holding the bag, and just make them get up watching ever so closely that there isnt a moments separation with the bag.. so as to not abuse authority.. and call time during this precious live ball game

I chose not to. WHen play is done and extraneous activity only remains, I call time and resume my spot behind the catcher.

Ya gotta use common sense in these things dakota... ya cant teach that on a message board though.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Ya gotta use common sense in these things dakota... ya cant teach that on a message board though.

Yet another dinger, wade. You're just full of 'em aren't you? And, you keep putting up your straw man argument about waiting on the pitcher to pick off runners, etc.

Who said a diddle damn about waiting! The point is about not killing the ball. You can keep the game moving at a quick pace without killing the ball! But, that does take experience, not just the quick kill.

The rule you keep applying to kill the ball says (Slow Pitch Only) in my ASA rule book.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Yet another dinger, wade. You're just full of 'em aren't you? And, you keep putting up your straw man argument about waiting on the pitcher to pick off runners, etc.

Who said a diddle damn about waiting! The point is about not killing the ball. You can keep the game moving at a quick pace without killing the ball! But, that does take experience, not just the quick kill.

The rule you keep applying to kill the ball says (Slow Pitch Only) in my ASA rule book.

The rule I use to kill the ball says an umpire can call time..

what rule are you referring too?

Its not a straw man to talk about the picking off the runners on base - thats a specific argument on the part of posters on your side of the argument that killing the ball (when its effectively dead anyway once in the circle with F1 and runners are on bag, barring knuckleheadness not worthy of discussion) prevents a pitcher from attempting to pick off the runner.

Whats next, if the runner lifts her foot slightly while shes waiting on you to stop staring at her and the pitcher to see if they will make a play on eachother, call the runner out for leaving the bag?

Play is dead.. people are waiting.. thats all thats happening.

I guess I'll let you have the last word on this, neither of us will change our styles.

Course IMO, in timed games, its the girls you are robbing when you can only get in 4 innings in a buck 20 and wonder why FP is so slow. Its their game though, let em lag.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

The rule I use to kill the ball says an umpire can call time.. what rule are you referring too?

10-8-I says the umpire is to kill the ball when all immediate play has been completed. That is apparently your standard, which you also apparently interpret to fall into the "conditions justify" clause of 10-8-A, which I claim was not the intent at all.

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Its not a straw man to talk about the picking off the runners on base - thats a specific argument on the part of posters on your side of the argument that killing the ball (when its effectively dead anyway once in the circle with F1 and runners are on bag, barring knuckleheadness not worthy of discussion) prevents a pitcher from attempting to pick off the runner.

Yes, it is a straw man argument in replying to my posts, since I never raised that argument. I am arguing against killing the ball just because you, the umpire, think things should stop now.

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Play is dead.. people are waiting.. thats all thats happening.

What people are waiting? Can't you keep a game moving without killing it?

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Course IMO, in timed games, its the girls you are robbing when you can only get in 4 innings in a buck 20 and wonder why FP is so slow. Its their game though, let em lag.

all you want. My original, and still, objection to your philosophy is that you apparently kill the ball during live action merely because the players are too slow and are keeping you out of the shade.

If you care to reply to me again, keep it to that topic, will you? And quit dragging in all of your other silliness about 5 minutes between innings, people waiting on a pitch to happen, etc., etc. All of that can be controlled without calling TIME 200 times a game.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

Thanks for the kudoes

When a coach asks for time to put in the CR, at least around here, the runner usually trots off as soon as she knows that she is being replaced and we are waiting for the CR to find her helmet.
It almost sounds like you don't call LBR outs but I don't think that is what you would be saying.
Calling time doesn't help anything. IM made a good argument earlier that there is no essential difference in outcomes but there is the potential difference. Keeping the ball live forces the players to concentrate and the umps to watch the action.

If there is no essential difference, why lose the LBR and the potential outs or plays that result from it.
As I told IM in post 50 If calling time floats your boat, then by all means call time.

BTW What is woot??

I forget where I got that woot.. but its funny to me

Maybe im easily amused.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Dakota

10-8-I says the umpire is to kill the ball when all immediate play has been completed. That is apparently your standard, which you also apparently interpret to fall into the "conditions justify" clause of 10-8-A, which I claim was not the intent at all.


Yes, it is a straw man argument in replying to my posts, since I never raised that argument. I am arguing against killing the ball just because you, the umpire, think things should stop now.
What people are waiting? Can't you keep a game moving without killing it? all you want. My original, and still, objection to your philosophy is that you apparently kill the ball during live action merely because the players are too slow and are keeping you out of the shade.

If you care to reply to me again, keep it to that topic, will you? And quit dragging in all of your other silliness about 5 minutes between innings, people waiting on a pitch to happen, etc., etc. All of that can be controlled without calling TIME 200 times a game.

The only games where there is probably time enough to call time 200 times a game is yalls


S'Ok dakota, i know ur prone to overreaching rhetoric to inflate in your mind the value your point.



Man with work and umpiring every day, havent had much time to get the anal retentive point of view of umpiring..

man i missed yall