The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 11 votes, 4.64 average. Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 16, 2006, 12:06pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 547
Charles Barkley's "brutal NBA refs" comments

Anybody see the Spurs vs Mavs OT game last night and the post-game analysis by Charles Barkley? I'm paraphrasing here, but he essentially said -"David Stern has got to do something because the officials have been brutal in the playoffs".....

Although I only saw the 4th qtr and OT, last night's crew (Dick Bavetta, Jim Clark, and Derrick Stafford) did have a rough couple of minutes in the 4th qtr.

Jim Clark mistakenly thought a Mavs player hit the ball out of Duncan's hand before going over the backboard (no one touched it - should have been Mavs ball)

On the same possesion, Jim Clark overruled Derrick Stafford on a shot clock violation (2 replay angles did not show the ball hitting the rim)

After inbounding the ball following the "inadvertant whistle/shot clock" situation above, Stafford got Duncan on a moving screen that looked a lot like the ole' "make up call".

On the ensuing possession by the Mavs, when the ball went out of bounds on the endline, neither L or C had a clue (T had to come in to solve it). Coming on the heels of what happened at the other end of the court - it didn't look very good.

Despite those situations listed above (and two other surprising calls later in this game), have the officials been that bad? It seems to me that they've done an overall good job of working some very close games with the team that played the best winning.....
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 16, 2006, 12:56pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,342
I think all officials who make it to the NBA are quality individuals. No one is perfect. In a real game situation, in the heat of battle, judgement can be questioned. However, you have to keep things in perspective. At the high school, ncaa level, you may have situations you pointed out. The comments by Sir Charles is really not worth a discussion. JMO.
__________________
truerookie
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 16, 2006, 01:08pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,184
The key here is Barkley doesn't like the Mavericks, for whatever reason, and anytime they win, he has to make excuses for the team that lost.

Its as simple as that.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 16, 2006, 01:08pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 231
This is my personal observation and I have no stats to back it up, but I don't feel that Jim Clark is as solid an official as others who have been around as long as him. Again, PERSONAL opinion because I feel he makes a number of poor quality calls.

There was a blocking foul on Duncan last night where he pointed to the ground, which usually indicates to me that the restraining circle was the reason behind the block; however, the replays showed that Duncan was clearly outside of the circle by 2 ft.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 16, 2006, 01:08pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,104
My question is what is the NBA going to do if the officiating is bad? I always love how people complain, but have no solutions. Even Mark Cuban’s solution to “hire college official” was shortsighted and silly. Who cares what Charles says when he does not understand what it takes to become an official or what it really takes to get to this level. Then the very people they think would be able to officiate do not want to become an official. I am not sure why we pay that much attention to these clowns in the first place.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 16, 2006, 01:20pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 231
Barkley has always been known for his outlandish comments! Part of his statements are probably for shock effect. He's a useless commentator and his colleagues even make fun of him. Just a couple nights ago, one of his partners said, "Wow, Charles finally made a good comment!" or along those lines.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 16, 2006, 03:56pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Like other games in this series - the Spurs lost but coulda/shoulda won. It kills me to see them at the FT line - hire someone like the Mavs did a few years back and get their key players reliable at the line.

That aside, I think Cuban has lobbied/harrassed the league for long enough that the Mavericks, and Dirk in particular, get some pretty outlandish calls. I am not objective, but I don't recall watching the Spurs play anyone else... well, ok - the Lakers and Bryant are an exception... but o.w. the calls seem like the best you could expect. Dirk gets some crazy calls, however. I'm afraid I am developing a bit of a distaste for the Mavericks, and that's too bad; at least Duncan seemed to keep his composure last night.

Like the Rockets a few years back, the Spurs could still take control of this series - they are playing better as this thing goes along. I can still remember Tomjanovich saying "never underestimate the heart of a champion" after the Rockets had played umpteen elimination games on the way to their second title - wow.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 17, 2006, 06:49am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWL
I was at the game last night, and I can honestly say it wasn't very well officiated.
Is that what your extensive NBA playoff officiating experience tells you?
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 17, 2006, 10:26am
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,557
Anyone see the 2OT PHX/LAC game last night?

They called an OB against LAC where the player clearly did not step on or over the OB line. Then an 8-second violation where only 6.8 seconds appeared to come off the game clock from inbound to whistle. Very odd, indeed.
__________________
Pope Francis
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 17, 2006, 10:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,184
Quote:
I think Cuban has lobbied/harrassed the league for long enough that the Mavericks, and Dirk in particular, get some pretty outlandish calls.
This is nonsense. If you followed the Mavericks for any length of time, you'd know the frustration that Mavs fans have had with the officiating. Some of it justified, a lot of it not -- just like every other team in the league. Think back to Shawn Bradley -- a guy who would breath on someone and the officials would call a foul on him. It didn't matter whether Bradley had a good guarding position or not, the call would almost always go against him. I'm not saying all the calls were wrong, just that the hint that the Mavs are getting "outlandish" calls -- then or now -- is ludicrous.

What's happening is the Mavs are beating SA at their on game -- being somewhat physical and playing good defense, and SA doesn't like it. I can understand them not liking it, but complaining about the officials is bush league. If the Mavs were down 3-1 in this series and complaining about the officials, SA would just be laughing, and the press would try to argue the Mavs are sore losers. Barkley wouldn't have said a word about it.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 17, 2006, 02:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,984
Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
Anyone see the 2OT PHX/LAC game last night?

They called an OB against LAC where the player clearly did not step on or over the OB line. Then an 8-second violation where only 6.8 seconds appeared to come off the game clock from inbound to whistle. Very odd, indeed.
I only caught part of this game, and saw one of the calls in question. On the OB call you are talking about, there were only 2 camera angles available, and both of them appeared that the player was inbounds, however, I wouldn't call it "clearly." The officials angle was from the opposite side of the camera angles that were replayed, and I would submit that he may have stepped on the line.

As for the 8 second violation, I did see that one on Sportscenter, but they didn't mention anything about the clock not supporting the call.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 17, 2006, 03:17pm
Esteemed Participant
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 4,775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
This is nonsense. If you followed the Mavericks for any length of time, you'd know the frustration that Mavs fans have had with the officiating. Some of it justified, a lot of it not -- just like every other team in the league. Think back to Shawn Bradley -- a guy who would breath on someone and the officials would call a foul on him. It didn't matter whether Bradley had a good guarding position or not, the call would almost always go against him. I'm not saying all the calls were wrong, just that the hint that the Mavs are getting "outlandish" calls -- then or now -- is ludicrous.

What's happening is the Mavs are beating SA at their on game -- being somewhat physical and playing good defense, and SA doesn't like it. I can understand them not liking it, but complaining about the officials is bush league. If the Mavs were down 3-1 in this series and complaining about the officials, SA would just be laughing, and the press would try to argue the Mavs are sore losers. Barkley wouldn't have said a word about it.

So when the Mavs fans are complaining about the officials - like saying Bradley never got any calls, etc - it's ok...but when a Spurs fan complains it is "nonsense" and "bush league"?? I think that about sums your post up...makes lots of sense to me.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 17, 2006, 04:33pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Quote:
Originally posted by Texas Aggie
eing somewhat physical and playing good defense, and SA doesn't like it. I can understand them not liking it, but complaining about the officials is bush league.
Hmmm, probably a Mavericks fan. In no way do I believe the Spurs have lost because of the officiating. The Mavs are playing very good ball and throwing a lot of young talent at the Spurs. The Spurs should be ashamed at how they are managing the FT line but they are playing crisper with each game - so don't count them out.

To believe that Cuban's incessant lobbying does not have any effect on how the game is called is a bit naive, imo. I certainly do not believe the officials "cost the game", nor do I believe they are purposely trying to appease Cuban , but if an owner submits a barrage of reports throughout the season to document bad calls and is willing to pay through the nose in order to complain, then you can bet that may very likely mean the officials tend to be a 'bit more' on their toes to avoid bad calls against the Mavericks.

Of course, neither one of us is objective about this, are we?
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 17, 2006, 07:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 259
Quote:
To believe that Cuban's incessant lobbying does not have any effect on how the game is called is a bit naive, imo. I certainly do not believe the officials "cost the game", nor do I believe they are purposely trying to appease Cuban , but if an owner submits a barrage of reports throughout the season to document bad calls and is willing to pay through the nose in order to complain, then you can bet that may very likely mean the officials tend to be a 'bit more' on their toes to avoid bad calls against the Mavericks.
I definitely second that as I feel that the officials are more cautious of their calls because of Mark Cuban. That's the effect of what money can give you. That one bit of cautiousness can make a HUGE DIFFERENCE IN ONE OF THEIR MANY DECISION MAKING THROUGHOUT THE GAME.

Is no doubt the Mavs are outplaying the Spurs. Think about it, the Spurs are "trying" to match up with the Mavs and they have not found an answer for all of the Mavs scoring. By not playing their centers (Mohammad and Rasho Nesterovic) they are missing a lot of shot blocking inside. Throughout game 4, all i can think of is Howard and Stackhouse being able to score pretty much anywhere on the court. And not to mention that the Spurs seems to struggle with the offense. They had a chance to win it the very last play before OT but they chose to give the ball to Duncan down low. Wouldn't it be more effective to have Parker drive the ball and create something since that seems to got them going in the entire game instead of giving it to an injured and tired Duncan? Call it bad coaching, bad reffing, or what, the Spurs are definitely not playing very "Spurs-like".

Whether Cuban has an effect to the officiating or not, I definitely see that the Mavs are outplaying the Spurs in every way. The Spurs will very likely to lose this series if they don't step up their game!
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 17, 2006, 11:05pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwanr1
I definitely second that as I feel that the officials are more cautious of their calls because of Mark Cuban. That's the effect of what money can give you. That one bit of cautiousness can make a HUGE DIFFERENCE IN ONE OF THEIR MANY DECISION MAKING THROUGHOUT THE GAME.
This is a bunch of crap. I do not believe for one second the officials even give a damn. The NBA hires them, not Mark Cuban. If they screw up according to what the NBA Supervisor says, then they might get in trouble with the league (fine, suspended, fired). Then they will not get any playoff games or get kicked out the league. I am sure Cuban is not much different than other owners, he is just more public. I am also sure there has been some conversation with the NBA officials about this issue in their meetings. So you all know during the season these officials meet every single day online and go over plays that were missed or were correct. I am sure the league is "putting them on edge" much more than anything Cuban is going to say. Just a guess on my part.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)

Last edited by JRutledge; Thu May 18, 2006 at 01:16am.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wonderful article - "Love of the Game" jeffpea Basketball 0 Mon May 15, 2006 12:20pm
"Don't Swallow Bubble Gum" ! Al Softball 1 Tue May 09, 2006 11:21pm
fouled while "shooting" at wrong basket A Pennsylvania Coach Basketball 15 Sun Apr 30, 2006 01:38pm
"Tail Wagging The Dog" BigUmp56 Baseball 17 Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:56pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:21pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1