Sure wish it hadn't happened .......

[TexBlue]

I was calling in the TAAF State Championships this last weekend. Was the PU on the game to decide who gets 3rd place and who goes on to the championship game.

Bottom of the 7th inning, home team down by 1 run, runner on 3rd, 2 outs. The batter hits a little blooper right over the pitcher's head, between pitcher and 2nd base. I immediately run about 3 steps to my left and in, to make the call on the catch and still being able to watch the runner coming home. I'm in perfect position to see the catch. The catch will be a forward running, bent over to the ground catch. Just as the F4 and and the ball get to the same place, the pitcher swerves to her left and blocks me out of the play. I was almost certain I could tell the ball was going to short hop the glove. I give my safe signal and look at the runner coming home and see her step on the plate. I immediately look at my partner, who was in C and coming in for a possible play at 1st. I instantly call time and go to him, asking for help. He looks pretty sick and said he had a great view of the play, right up to the time the shortstop side stepped into his view and blocked him. So, no help there, he didn't see a thing. All I could do was explain to both coaches what happened and call the BR safe and play ball, the run scores. Needless to say, I caught a lot of grief over this and I had to take it, just to let them get it our of their system and since it was my call. I am pretty certain the ball was caught, after listening to the crowd and the coaches immeiately after the play was made. Apparently the only 2 people who were blocked out on the play were the only 2 people who could make a call. The Home team won the game on the next hit, a triple that scored the runner who should have been out.

This makes my list of the "Top 5 Plays I Wished I Wasn't Involved In."

[kellerumps]

Just curious, but why weren't you working 3-Person on a game that important?

I have a saying to coaches or administrators on a call like that....."Coach, that was (Insert game fee amount) call." When they look at you funny, explain that the 3rd official would have been on top of that call.

In your case, both base umpires would have been "Home" on that play with each having a GREAT LOOK thru the play. Truely a game fee call if ever there was one.

[TexBlue]

They were saving the 3-man for the Championship game. All the others were 2-man.

[Skahtboi]

A lot of the TD's and UIC's I work for have learned the value of the three man crew in these cases. I was working a tournament this weekend where the last loser's bracket game as well as the championship and and "if" game were all three man crews. I am seeing this a lot more often than I did four or five years ago.

[SWFLguy]

All the more reason for the 3rd umpire
when you get into the play-offs !!
I'm boning up on 3-umpire mechanics
for next week's regionals here in SW FL.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by kellerumps
Just curious, but why weren't you working 3-Person on a game that important?

I have a saying to coaches or administrators on a call like that....."Coach, that was (Insert game fee amount) call." When they look at you funny, explain that the 3rd official would have been on top of that call.

In your case, both base umpires would have been "Home" on that play with each having a GREAT LOOK thru the play. Truely a game fee call if ever there was one.

While a third umpire MAY have helped, no guarantee, and the statement could have been somewhat accurate, I find it a bit unprofessional to throw that in the face of the coaches. After all, they didn't schedule the umpires.

The explanation that you and your partner bothed move to the prescribed position and were blocked by the defensive players should suffice. You let the coach have a few non-personal words and then sit them down. If THEY bring up the importance of another official or feel compelled to take their complaint to the next level, they should be referred to the AD, TD, Assignor or whoever is responsible for the administration of the tournament.

[kellerumps]

You are correct...There are no Guarantee's, but I will take my chances on a 3 person crew getting that call correct over a 2 person crew.

As for my comment....In our area, we don't have assigners(Non College). At (ASA) tournaments, we will have UIC's and a assigner but if the coaches/clubs want something, then they will find a way to get it done. Have I made that comment to a coach? Yes...Only after the game when I was confronted. Next year, we had 3 umpires.

Begin Rant

The game of FP Softball has progressed beyond the 2-Person Umpire System. I believe that not enough is being done to promote and implement 3-Umpires at the higher levels of play. Last year at the ASA 14-U National in Bloomington/Normal Il, we used 3 for everything beyond Pool Play. This year, I believe ASA is going back to 2 umpires except for the Semi-Finals On. Why?

Does it cost more? Yes. Does it require some more training? Yes. Does it require some coaches to learn something different about umpires? Yes.

We are fortunate in that we work the majority of our games in the 3 Umpire system. It's to the point where we are almost uncomfortable working the 2 umpire system. We can do it, but would prefer not to.

If money is an issue, I bet that people would be surprised at the number of us that would accept a lower game fee in return for working with 3. Further, I believe teams would be willing to pay a higher entry fee if they know 3-Umps will be used.

I will get off my soap box now......I just whole heartedly believe in the 3-Umpire System. The players and coaches are working too hard these days and they deserve the very best we have to offer. In many cases, that will require 3 of us on the field.

End Rant

[Edited by kellerumps on Apr 19th, 2004 at 11:37 PM]

[FUBLUE]

IF I were a coach on this board, I would say that three out of shape, fat, slow umpires would STILL miss the call because the other umpire wouldn't have been watching anyway...but I'm not. I'd work with (and for) any of you any day of the week...and twice on the weekends.

That being said, sometimes we DO get blocked out by players...2 umpire system is based on getting angles on calls. Sometimes we just get blocked. No ones fault, but an unfortunate situation when it happens.

The two umpire system can be used more efficiently than it is used now. Several of the umpires I regularly work with will change things up to use the system better. THe only problem is that we ONLY change it up with each other...because we trust each other, and know each other will be there if needed.

In that situation you describe TexBlue, maybe we should pole the coaches. Each coach gets one vote. I would tend to estimate a tie in this case...offensive coach votes no catch, defensive coach votes catch. Maybe we should go to the fans for their opinions. They all had a really good view of it (which may be true, since they were probably at least a few feet up in the air so they were not blocked---except by the fence, the guy in front of them, their son who wanted to go to the bathroom, the soda can, the "heat" from the nacho cheese...and an umpire and two defensive players). I wonder how they would vote?

We can't guess an out, so if we don't see it, we don't call it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by kellerumps

The game of FP Softball has progressed beyond the 2-Person Umpire System. I believe that not enough is being done to promote and implement 3-Umpires at the higher levels of play. Last year at the ASA 14-U National in Bloomington/Normal Il, we used 3 for everything beyond Pool Play. This year, I believe ASA is going back to 2 umpires except for the Semi-Finals On. Why?

Because there are not enough qualified umpires.

Does it cost more? Yes.

Yes, it does cost more and the UIC is not the person paying for the umpires, the tournament host does. ALL slow pitch NT/NC games have been reduced to 2-umpire games for one purpose: save the hosts money.

We are fortunate in that we work the majority of our games in the 3 Umpire system. It's to the point where we are almost uncomfortable working the 2 umpire system. We can do it, but would prefer not to.

Maybe in your area, not everywhere. It has gotten to the point around here that JV HS games are lucky to get ONE umpire. The bodies just aren't available. ASA umpire registration has dropped nearly 28% over the past fifteen years. Meanwhile, the youth program has gone through the roof and the adult SP programs still carry non-scholastic softball throughout the country.

If money is an issue, I bet that people would be surprised at the number of us that would accept a lower game fee in return for working with 3. Further, I believe teams would be willing to pay a higher entry fee if they know 3-Umps will be used.

I bet you are wrong in parts of the country. It seems you assume that because something works in your area, it must be true everywhere. It's not.

Unfortunately, we have as many "greens" nowadays than we have blues. It is also unfortunate that the local/state/metros cannot necessarily do without them and cover the games being played.

Part of that reason is people like the S.F.B. above. If I had one umpire for every ten times I've heard, "No way, you guys get too much crap. Why would I want to do that?" from a person I'm attempting to recruit as an umpires, I wouldn't have a need for more umpires.

I will get off my soap box now......I just whole heartedly believe in the 3-Umpire System. The players and coaches are working too hard these days and they deserve the very best we have to offer. In many cases, that will require 3 of us on the field.

They may work hard, but that doesn't mean their organizations are willing to pay the price. We routinely have softball clubs request umpires, but don't want to pay the standard rate for this area. But, not everything gets fixed by throwing money at it. If it did, some of this softball leagues and organizations wouldn't survive.

[FUBLUE]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
[B]

Originally posted by kellerumps



Maybe in your area, not everywhere. It has gotten to the point around here that JV HS games are lucky to get ONE umpire. The bodies just aren't available. ASA umpire registration has dropped nearly 28% over the past fifteen years. Meanwhile, the youth program has gone through the roof and the adult SP programs still carry non-scholastic softball throughout the country.

I work for an association...we have 175 umpires that are considered ACTIVE...meaning they work games. But not all of them work more than 2 nights a week...some for work conflicts, but mostly, from what I gather, because they don't want to call every night. That's fine, but to me, they shouldn't whine when they don't get the "primo" games...reward those who help the program, right?

In a "previous association" the assignor would assign two people to two different games. Then he would call each umpire up and say, "I'm sending so and so to this school instead of working with you. I'll find a replacement." And, low and behold, you get to the game and you work it by yourself. Of course, you get "double pay" but I'd rather have a partner than work a varsity game by myself...which is what we ended up doing quite often for this association.

[Skahtboi]

I agree that the issue with working a 3 man crew on most FP games has less to do with money and more to do with lack of qualified manpower. I am sure that Mike's statistics on the drop in umpiring over the last few years are accurate, as there seem to be less and less people wanting to get into the avocation. And even when you do get some new recruits, retaining them is next to impossible. How many times have we seen a promising recruit not come back for their sophomore year? I know that of the rookies that my HS chapter had last year, only about 15% returned for year two. I think what we really need to address is how to better retain our umpires.

Has this thread now taking a substantial enough twist?

[FUBLUE]

Originally posted by Skahtboi
I agree that the issue with working a 3 man crew on most FP games has less to do with money and more to do with lack of qualified manpower. I am sure that Mike's statistics on the drop in umpiring over the last few years are accurate, as there seem to be less and less people wanting to get into the avocation. And even when you do get some new recruits, retaining them is next to impossible. How many times have we seen a promising recruit not come back for their sophomore year? I know that of the rookies that my HS chapter had last year, only about 15% returned for year two. I think what we really need to address is how to better retain our umpires.

So how do we solve the problem? As what our association considers a veteran (I'm 30, but have done ball for 11 years) I tend to get partnered with the new guys...so I not only have to umpire, but I have to teach while umpiring, and cover for him/her if he/she screws up. I've actually proposed a UIC type of thing...where someone goes and evaluates new umpires, give them pointers, etc. OUr association uses a mentorship program, but it's nothing formal...no structure...just someone to call if you have any questions. Maybe we should use the mentor as a coach...once a week, just go and watch a game with a new umpire. I don't know the solution.

What do all of you do?

[TexBlue]

Originally posted by Skahtboi


Has this thread now taking a substantial enough twist?

Yeah, this thing kinda developed a life of it's own and took off running, didn't it.

[TexBlue]

Originally posted by FUBLUE

So how do we solve the problem? As what our association considers a veteran (I'm 30, but have done ball for 11 years) I tend to get partnered with the new guys...so I not only have to umpire, but I have to teach while umpiring, and cover for him/her if he/she screws up. I've actually proposed a UIC type of thing...where someone goes and evaluates new umpires, give them pointers, etc. OUr association uses a mentorship program, but it's nothing formal...no structure...just someone to call if you have any questions. Maybe we should use the mentor as a coach...once a week, just go and watch a game with a new umpire. I don't know the solution.

What do all of you do? [/B]

Our group tries to keep the 1st year guys with one of about nine umpires who are really good at developing new folks for the 1st 3 weeks. After that, they have been exposed to the basics and are turned loose with the rest of the guys. We also have classes from the middle of January to the end of February. We also see the guys on the weekend and answer question and tell war stories and debate (rather loudly) rules and situations. All the guys know they can call me anytime or email me and I'll get back fairly quickly to them. I've noticed the quality of the 0-3 year guys has improved a lot and we seem to be retaining a lot more of the new guys.

TexUmp,

As a coach I'm very disheartened to read your post about at championship game and you being screened on a play that impacts the outcome of the game. That is you job to physically move so you can see the play. Your going to tell me these girls were Shaq's size and you in your great athletic shape could not simply get around them or get there quickly enough to see the play. That is an injustice to all of those players on both teams that our out there busting their butts trying to win and the officials that are hired to give the kids the best game possible choke like that. If I was the coach I would have had many words with you and am disgusted by your lack of professionalism and ability to simply be in shape and move to the play. This is dishearting and I dont know how you sleep having taken the game away from the kids.