Umpiire's Nightmare #1 for November downtime

[SamNVa]

Score tied in the bottom of the 7th, 2 outs, batter hits a high popup down the 1st baseline, and gets a late jump out of the box. On the way to 1st, the BR sees the pitcher charging hard toward her looking up to track the popup, so the BR stops and takes a step backward to avoid colliding with the pitcher. The ball hits the pitcher's glove over fair territory, pops out and bounces off the BR's helmet and is caught by F2 who has trailed the BR up the line. F2 tosses the ball toward the circle, then she and F1 head for their dugout. The BR starts walking toward her dugout where she is met by the 1st base coach who taps her lightly on the shoulder just outside the dugout. He leans down and whispers into the BR's ear and she immediately turns and runs to 1st, then to 2nd, 3rd and home while the defensive team huddles in front of their dugout oblivious to what's going on. You as the LU are watching all of this, Once the runner touches home, what do you do?

SamC

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Count the run and call for the next batter.

When ball hit BR it is like hitting the ground ==> no catch by F2.

Definitely would be a nightmare if you incorrectly called the out.

[Dakota]

BR out for coach's assistance - the tapping on the shoulder prevented BR from entering the dugout. Inning over.

[Andy]

I'm going to take a shot at this. It seems easy to me, but I may be missing something.

I've got the batter out for one of two reasons:

1. The step backwards before reaching first base
2. The caught fly ball

I can't see a case for interference on the BR as the pitcher had opportunity to catch the pop fly. The fact that the ball hit the batter does not change its status as a fly ball. If another defensive player catches it before it hits the ground, its a caught fly ball, batter out.

I can't come up with any reason that the coach might think its OK to have the BR circle the bases.

I think that there is more to this and I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Andy
1. The step backwards before reaching first base

Doesn't work because the BR was not attempting to delay or avoid a tag.

2. The caught fly ball ... The fact that the ball hit the batter does not change its status as a fly ball.

Yes it does. See Rule 1-CATCH-E.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Dakota

Doesn't work because the BR was not attempting to delay or avoid a tag.

Yes it does. See Rule 1-CATCH-E.

Andy,

Tom is correct, the defense did NOT retire this player.

However, I would have to see this "tap" before I'm going to rule the BR out. IOW, I'm going to have to be convinced it actually kept the BR in playable territory as it doesn't seem to exactly be the same thing as grabbing her arm to keep her from leaving play.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

I missed the part about tied score... it was the first two words of the scenario... easy to miss.

Unless I can come up with a good reason to call the BR out (and I don't see one in this description), GAME OVER; Home team wins.

The umpire could have helped the situation by saying "No catch." Defense might have then made a proper out. Obviously the BR thought she was out beacuse she headed for the dugout. But a "no catch" call would have likely kept her running and prompted the defense to make a play.

[Dakota]

In defense of coach's physical assistance on a HTBT play... obviously, a precarios position

The BR starts walking toward her dugout where she is met by the 1st base coach who taps her lightly on the shoulder just outside the dugout.

I read that to say BR is just a step or so from entering DBT. Without action by the coach, she will enter DBT and be declared OUT. Obviously, the coach was trying to get the player's attention without tipping off the defense.

Coach says, "Sally, stop." legal.
Coach taps her on the shoulder. physical, right? Assisting her, right? (got her to stop). Why isn't that BR- OUT? Does the "lightly" part mean it was not illegal? My read of the sitch was the tap on the shoulder caused the player to stop walking. Can't do that, coach.

Anyhow, that is the reasoning behind my answer, above.

[Andy]

Mike and Tom, thanks for the rule cite and clarification. I guess I need to go back and re-read Rule 1, as the part about the ball hitting the batter did not occur to me.

I figured the step backward reasoning was a stretch at best and was leaning toward the caught ball as the reason for the out. Oh well, better to screw it up here than on the field.

Tom - I can certainly see your reasoning for caling the out based on physically assisting the runner, but I don't know if I could invoke it for a light tap on the shoulder. This may be a situation to follow the spirit of the rule as opposed to the letter of the rule (IMHO).

[Del-Blue]

I have a run, and the game over. Tom is right, the step back is legal, not avoiding a tag. Like Mike said the tap on the shoulder would have to be HTBT, but I doubt I would call it unless the coach actually grabbed the player.

[whiskers_ump]

Personally, I am going with Tom on this one. Batter is
out for coaches assistance. By posters description, BR
was about to enter dugout, he physcially stopped her with
touching {assist}. Play on.

glen

[Edited by whiskers_ump on Nov 6th, 2003 at 05:37 PM]

[CecilOne]

I think a tap on the shoulder or even a nudge, away from the basepath, is way beyond the intent of the rule on coach's assistance.

Wow, DTTB and D-B are still alive.

[SC Ump]

Perhaps this should be a new thread but since it deals directly with the coach "physically assisting" the player I will post it here.

I was doing 11-12 year olds that were not very good. R1, a deaf girl, was at first. A fly ball is hit to F9 and 3B coach sees F9 will not catch it so starts yelling, "Run". R1 is "tagging up" and just watching F9. 1B coach, a player, starts also jumping up and down yelling, "Run." R1 is deaf and does not hear the yelling, nor does she run.

1B, going into fair territory slightly, gets R1's attention and then R1 starts running.

Later I related the story to my brother, a non-umpire sports type, and he asked what I would have done if the coach had tapped R1. I said, "I doubt I would have seen that." (wink-wink-nudge-nudge, if you know what I mean.)

What would you have done if you had seen a tap?

[bethsdad]

I think the tap on the shoulder just got her attention. The assist was when he told her what to do.Of course thats if it's my DD's team. Brian

[Dakota]

Originally posted by CecilOne
I think a tap on the shoulder or even a nudge, away from the basepath, is way beyond the intent of the rule on coach's assistance.

I want to explore this a bit. Of course, since this is a fictional play, we can visualize what we wish to visualize in making our well-considered, minutes-or-hours-or-days-to-think-about-it judgments, so nothing will be absolute.

The intent, as I have always thought of it, behind the coach's physical assist rule (actually the non-runner's physical assist rule) was that the runner in question must make all of the actual decisions regarding her play with only verbal or signal coaching from her coach, bench, whatever.

Clearly, as I visualize this play, time and silence were of the essence in the coach's actions. Time because he needed the BR to stop in her tracks, being only a step or so from entering DBT. Silence because he didn't want to tip the defense that she was not yet out.

Would a shout "GO TO FIRST" have worked? Probably wrt stopping the BR and having her make an attempt to first. Probably not wrt the defense. They'd have heard the shout also and may have been able to make the throw or tag in time.

Would a quieter or more vaguely worded instruction have worked? Maybe, but maybe the BR would have taken that extra step.

So, the coach decided to tap her on the shoulder. The natural reaction to a tap on the shoulder is to stop and turn, which is what she did. Sounds illegal to me - a physical assist where the physical contact is what caused the BR to change her direction.

Now, OTOH, same play but with the BR 10 feet from the dugout. In this case, the light tap on the shoulder was unlikely to have been critical to the successful coaching of the BR to continue the play. Probably no call.

Comments?