Reversed call at 1st with 2 outs

[Tru_in_Blu]

I think it was handled correctly from the perspective that the umpires got together to compare notes. Just to clarify, it shouldn't be that the PU "overturned" the BU's call. The PU provided additional information to the calling umpire who then decided to change his original call. (That's how it should work.) Bringing the defense back out was fine.

I don't get the advance of the runners 1 base each. Curious as to the logic of that ruling.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I don't get the advance of the runners 1 base each. Curious as to the logic of that ruling.

Because that's where they would be if the original call was safe.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Because that's where they would be if the original call was safe.

That's not how I understood it, Rich.

"PU (who) overturned the call and advanced the runners one base each..."

If the original call was safe, the BR would have ended up on first base. So advancing the BR anywhere beyond first base doesn't sound right.

Perhaps we're just interpreting things differently. The OP didn't mention other runners until later. But putting them 1 base from where they started might be OK.

Where do you have the BR ending up?

And if BU was behind first base, that could indicate that it was a 2-ump system with 1 runner on first base at the time. (And BU should have been closer to second base.) Otherwise, it would indicate that there were no runners on, or the BU was clueless.

[IRISHMAFIA]

I read it as the reversal of the call on the BR forced other runners up a base where appropriate. If that wasn't the case, I agree with your questioning of the award.

[Mountaincoach]

Thanks guys! I've had a good laugh too. ISA stands for Independent Sports Association. I think they're primarily based in the Southeast. To clarify, the umpires only advanced the runners on 2nd and 3rd. The batter was left at 1st. He said it was a judgement call. I agree they both were in the process of advancing during the play (with 2 outs), but oh well. The first baseman heard the "out" call and started toward the dugout (leaving us to predict whether or not the runner on 3rd would have scored if the 1st baseman had thrown the ball home). The thing that really bothered me was the fact the offensive coach was the reason the field umpire asked for help from the plate umpire even though it was his call and he was in the best position to make the call. In the game prior, I asked for basically the same thing after 2 badly missed calls at home plate, and I was told no.

EDIT--I just realized your confusion about the base runners. I failed terribly to mention the runners on 2nd and 3rd before the play began. 1st was unoccupied. Sorry.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Mountaincoach

Thanks guys! I've had a good laugh too. ISA stands for Independent Sports Association. I think they're primarily based in the Southeast. To clarify, the umpires only advanced the runners on 2nd and 3rd. The batter was left at 1st. He said it was a judgement call. I agree they both were in the process of advancing during the play (with 2 outs), but oh well. The first baseman heard the "out" call and started toward the dugout (leaving us to predict whether or not the runner on 3rd would have scored if the 1st baseman had thrown the ball home). The thing that really bothered me was the fact the offensive coach was the reason the field umpire asked for help from the plate umpire even though it was his call and he was in the best position to make the call. In the game prior, I asked for basically the same thing after 2 badly missed calls at home plate, and I was told no.

EDIT--I just realized your confusion about the base runners. I failed terribly to mention the runners on 2nd and 3rd before the play began. 1st was unoccupied. Sorry.

I know nothing about ISA or their mechanics or umpiring positioning. In the 2 sanctions that I work, the BU should have been in what we refer to as the "C" position - behind and off the right shoulder of the short-stop. This assumes a fast pitch game. But even if it was a slow pitch game, the BU should not have been positioned behind first base.

Again, based on USA or NFHS, I think moving the runners from second and third up one base was the correct call. This would be similar to the result if F3 had just dropped the ball at first. Each runner probably would have advanced 1 base and BR safe at first.

The offense's coach was well within his rights to ask the BU to check with his partner. The BU did not have to check, but most umpires will acknowledge the request if made respectfully.

I had a banger in a game last week, third out of the inning. The offense's coach came out to ask me about the call and if I'd check with my partner. He stated that he thought F3 pulled his foot and that he thought the runner beat the throw anyway. I said the judgment of beating the throw would stand but that I would check with my partner on the pulled foot request. Partner said there was no pulled foot, so the call stood.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I read it as the reversal of the call on the BR forced other runners up a base where appropriate. If that wasn't the case, I agree with your questioning of the award.

I was going with an "umpire jeopardy" situation being resolved with the umpires judging the result if the call was originally correct.
In this OP, judgment of whether the runners would have advanced even if the call was safe.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

That's not how I understood it, Rich.

"PU (who) overturned the call and advanced the runners one base each..."

If the original call was safe, the BR would have ended up on first base. So advancing the BR anywhere beyond first base doesn't sound right.

Perhaps we're just interpreting things differently. The OP didn't mention other runners until later. But putting them 1 base from where they started might be OK.

Where do you have the BR ending up?

And if BU was behind first base, that could indicate that it was a 2-ump system with 1 runner on first base at the time. (And BU should have been closer to second base.) Otherwise, it would indicate that there were no runners on, or the BU was clueless.

The B/R is at first. Everyone else advances, forced or not, because that's where they would be with a safe call.