take a knee?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by asdf

Relevance ?? You asked if I saw the game. I gave you someone who was on the sidelines that heard what is repeated around the league in this situation.



After they were told the knee was coming....that's what the problem is...

Sigh ...

Let's not be politicians... let's actually hear the words the other person is saying and respond to those.

You said that the team behind decided without warning...
I disagreed with the "without warning" part and asked if you'd seen the play in question. If you had, I don't think you would describe Tampa's alignment as "without warning" - like I said, watching from home on TV it was obvious to me that something was coming. They were not passive at all.
The fact that your father in law heard Ferris's cousin's hairdresser say that they were taking a knee is completely irrelevant to the fact that Tampa Bay was obviously not taking the play off. I'm not disputing that NYG said they were taking a knee. No one is. So great, you have proof from your father in law that something happened that no one is disagreeing with.

I fail to understand why you (or anyone) is upset that a team down only 1 score played every down to win. Further, I wonder how this discussion would be going if Eli actually dropped the ball when he was surprised by Tampa's defensive rush.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by asdf

Show me one situation around the league where a team took a knee just before halftime and the opponent blew it up....

You can't. Because that's not how the game's played.

This is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

[MD Longhorn]

It is not surprising to me, but may be to others, to note the number of ex-players whose opinions are that TB did nothing wrong and NY needs to shut up. Play until the end of the game. Brian Dawkins even made my point this morning - it was obvious to everyone that TB was playing defense on that play, shame on the NYG line for not blocking.

[APG]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

It is not surprising to me, but may be to others, to note the number of ex-players whose opinions are that TB did nothing wrong and NY needs to shut up. Play until the end of the game. Brian Dawkins even made my point this morning - it was obvious to everyone that TB was playing defense on that play, shame on the NYG line for not blocking.

See, I've heard quite the opposite from ex-players and coaches.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

See, I've heard quite the opposite from ex-players and coaches.

Which ones, and on what programs?

Those I've heard to this point - Cris Carter, Brian Dawkins, Mike Golic, Mike Ditka, Ron Jaworski, Mark Schlereth, Terry Bradshaw (I think that counts negative points for me though), James Brown.

I've heard one arguing the other side - Jimmy Johnson.

[bcl1127]

Originally Posted by asdf

After they were told the knee was coming....that's what the problem is...

Then the Giants are not being smart, don't tell the other team what is coming. Play the knee play like any other play, because that is what it is, a play. The fake spike play is an example, everyone thinks a spike is coming, so they layoff and boom, TD because you were sleeping. Play every play in every game the same way.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bcl1127

Then the Giants are not being smart, don't tell the other team what is coming. Play the knee play like any other play, because that is what it is, a play. The fake spike play is an example, everyone thinks a spike is coming, so they layoff and boom, TD because you were sleeping. Play every play in every game the same way.

Not quite the same, as the spike is generally done by the team trailing and trying to score. Assuming they're just killing the clock is a mistake (I recall Peyton Manning throwing a TD pass on such a play).

This play is done with the idea that the game is conceded. I can understand, however, how the defense could take a bit of exception to the offense trying to concede for them.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Which ones, and on what programs?

Those I've heard to this point - Cris Carter, Brian Dawkins, Mike Golic, Mike Ditka, Ron Jaworski, Mark Schlereth, Terry Bradshaw (I think that counts negative points for me though), James Brown.

I've heard one arguing the other side - Jimmy Johnson.

I heard the "other side," but it was from Strahan on ESPN. That's the only former player I heard actually comment on it, though.

[APG]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Which ones, and on what programs?

Those I've heard to this point - Cris Carter, Brian Dawkins, Mike Golic, Mike Ditka, Ron Jaworski, Mark Schlereth, Terry Bradshaw (I think that counts negative points for me though), James Brown.

I've heard one arguing the other side - Jimmy Johnson.

Sorry, didn't take a list but I remember hearing those against from the NFL Network and NBC's Sunday Night pre game show.

And one can't compare the fake spike to taking a knee at the end of the game. Taking a knee involves the unwritten rule and accepted practice that involves ending the game. There's is no practice that dictates that the defense take it easy and that the offense must spike the ball.

[JasonTX]

Why even take a knee ? We need a rule created where you don't even have to snap the ball if we are to make the defense not play. I'll use a high school baseball rule for example. If you want to walk the batter you don't even have to pitch to him. You just put him on base. Let's just allow the offense to declare the game over when they are able to just run the clock out. Don't even snap it, just declare it over. Nothing can happen on the snap right? Wrong.

I had a game a few years ago with the defense needing to score to win. The offense, for whatever reason, told me they were taking a knee. Ok? Why are you telling me? I don't need to know what play they are calling. They take the snap and it is muffed and recovered by the defense with just enough to attempt a play. They didn't score, but at least they played til the final horn without giving up. It was one of the most exciting finishes I have seen because it just goes to show that the game isn't over until the clock hits zero.


Jerry Jones commented that they need a rule to get rid of the kneel down. Make em run a play.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

I had a game a few years ago with the defense needing to score to win. The offense, for whatever reason, told me they were taking a knee. Ok? Why are you telling me? I don't need to know what play they are calling. They take the snap and it is muffed and recovered by the defense with just enough to attempt a play. They didn't score, but at least they played til the final horn without giving up. It was one of the most exciting finishes I have seen because it just goes to show that the game isn't over until the clock hits zero.

My example is similar, but the opposite. My first year, I'm working with a very experienced guy. Offense announced that they are taking a knee. My whitehat tells the defense - "They're taking a knee. Relax, I don't want to see any hitting here." Sure enough, snap is muffed, hits the QB's foot and goes right about to the tackle. Had the defense been ready, they would have had a very good chance at getting it, as the linemen were clueless. RB ended up recovering. I felt like we took that game away from the defense there.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

My example is similar, but the opposite. My first year, I'm working with a very experienced guy. Offense announced that they are taking a knee. My whitehat tells the defense - "They're taking a knee. Relax, I don't want to see any hitting here." Sure enough, snap is muffed, hits the QB's foot and goes right about to the tackle. Had the defense been ready, they would have had a very good chance at getting it, as the linemen were clueless. RB ended up recovering. I felt like we took that game away from the defense there.

And if you go all the way back to my first post -- I only bring the whistle up to my mouth and hit it once I'm certain that the QB has cleanly taken the snap.

In 20+ years of doing this, I've never seen a muffed snap on a kneel down play -- I still wait to make sure the ball is firmly in the QB's hands.

I'm sure muffed snaps happen, but the lack of frequency to me suggests that it makes more sense for the defense to not risk injury (for either team) in this situation.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

Jerry Jones commented that they need a rule to get rid of the kneel down. Make em run a play.

How are you going to make them run a play? Teams will still do something to not lose the ball and it will either be more violent or with the same result. I think people that do no officiate should not speak on what should be done on any rule.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

How are you going to make them run a play? Teams will still do something to not lose the ball and it will either be more violent or with the same result. I think people that do no officiate should not speak on what should be done on any rule.

Peace

I like Jason's idea better than Jerry's. Jerry's was one of his less-fine thoughts.

OTOH, Jerry can speak on any rule he chooses - he's on the Rules Committee.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I like Jason's idea better than Jerry's. Jerry's was one of his less-fine thoughts.

OTOH, Jerry can speak on any rule he chooses - he's on the Rules Committee.

He can, but that does not make it less stupid.

Peace