take a knee?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

See, I've heard quite the opposite from ex-players and coaches.

Which ones, and on what programs?

Those I've heard to this point - Cris Carter, Brian Dawkins, Mike Golic, Mike Ditka, Ron Jaworski, Mark Schlereth, Terry Bradshaw (I think that counts negative points for me though), James Brown.

I've heard one arguing the other side - Jimmy Johnson.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Which ones, and on what programs?

Those I've heard to this point - Cris Carter, Brian Dawkins, Mike Golic, Mike Ditka, Ron Jaworski, Mark Schlereth, Terry Bradshaw (I think that counts negative points for me though), James Brown.

I've heard one arguing the other side - Jimmy Johnson.

I heard the "other side," but it was from Strahan on ESPN. That's the only former player I heard actually comment on it, though.

[APG]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Which ones, and on what programs?

Those I've heard to this point - Cris Carter, Brian Dawkins, Mike Golic, Mike Ditka, Ron Jaworski, Mark Schlereth, Terry Bradshaw (I think that counts negative points for me though), James Brown.

I've heard one arguing the other side - Jimmy Johnson.

Sorry, didn't take a list but I remember hearing those against from the NFL Network and NBC's Sunday Night pre game show.

And one can't compare the fake spike to taking a knee at the end of the game. Taking a knee involves the unwritten rule and accepted practice that involves ending the game. There's is no practice that dictates that the defense take it easy and that the offense must spike the ball.

[JasonTX]

Why even take a knee ? We need a rule created where you don't even have to snap the ball if we are to make the defense not play. I'll use a high school baseball rule for example. If you want to walk the batter you don't even have to pitch to him. You just put him on base. Let's just allow the offense to declare the game over when they are able to just run the clock out. Don't even snap it, just declare it over. Nothing can happen on the snap right? Wrong.

I had a game a few years ago with the defense needing to score to win. The offense, for whatever reason, told me they were taking a knee. Ok? Why are you telling me? I don't need to know what play they are calling. They take the snap and it is muffed and recovered by the defense with just enough to attempt a play. They didn't score, but at least they played til the final horn without giving up. It was one of the most exciting finishes I have seen because it just goes to show that the game isn't over until the clock hits zero.


Jerry Jones commented that they need a rule to get rid of the kneel down. Make em run a play.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

I had a game a few years ago with the defense needing to score to win. The offense, for whatever reason, told me they were taking a knee. Ok? Why are you telling me? I don't need to know what play they are calling. They take the snap and it is muffed and recovered by the defense with just enough to attempt a play. They didn't score, but at least they played til the final horn without giving up. It was one of the most exciting finishes I have seen because it just goes to show that the game isn't over until the clock hits zero.

My example is similar, but the opposite. My first year, I'm working with a very experienced guy. Offense announced that they are taking a knee. My whitehat tells the defense - "They're taking a knee. Relax, I don't want to see any hitting here." Sure enough, snap is muffed, hits the QB's foot and goes right about to the tackle. Had the defense been ready, they would have had a very good chance at getting it, as the linemen were clueless. RB ended up recovering. I felt like we took that game away from the defense there.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

My example is similar, but the opposite. My first year, I'm working with a very experienced guy. Offense announced that they are taking a knee. My whitehat tells the defense - "They're taking a knee. Relax, I don't want to see any hitting here." Sure enough, snap is muffed, hits the QB's foot and goes right about to the tackle. Had the defense been ready, they would have had a very good chance at getting it, as the linemen were clueless. RB ended up recovering. I felt like we took that game away from the defense there.

And if you go all the way back to my first post -- I only bring the whistle up to my mouth and hit it once I'm certain that the QB has cleanly taken the snap.

In 20+ years of doing this, I've never seen a muffed snap on a kneel down play -- I still wait to make sure the ball is firmly in the QB's hands.

I'm sure muffed snaps happen, but the lack of frequency to me suggests that it makes more sense for the defense to not risk injury (for either team) in this situation.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

Jerry Jones commented that they need a rule to get rid of the kneel down. Make em run a play.

How are you going to make them run a play? Teams will still do something to not lose the ball and it will either be more violent or with the same result. I think people that do no officiate should not speak on what should be done on any rule.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

How are you going to make them run a play? Teams will still do something to not lose the ball and it will either be more violent or with the same result. I think people that do no officiate should not speak on what should be done on any rule.

Peace

I like Jason's idea better than Jerry's. Jerry's was one of his less-fine thoughts.

OTOH, Jerry can speak on any rule he chooses - he's on the Rules Committee.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I like Jason's idea better than Jerry's. Jerry's was one of his less-fine thoughts.

OTOH, Jerry can speak on any rule he chooses - he's on the Rules Committee.

He can, but that does not make it less stupid.

Peace

[SE Minnestoa Re]

I had a high school game many years ago where the offensive team told everyone they were taking a knee. The losing team just stood there except for one young man. He blew right through and just blasted the QB after his knee was down. We then proceeded to have to break up the brawl that ensued. I had a line judge punched by the offending player when he was trying to get him off the field.

[silverpie]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

How are you going to make them run a play? Teams will still do something to not lose the ball and it will either be more violent or with the same result. I think people that do no officiate should not speak on what should be done on any rule.

Peace

Perhaps the Arena Football rule: after the one-minute warning (translate that to two, obviously) in the 4th quarter, if the offense has the lead and doesn't gain yardage on a play, the clock stops.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by silverpie

Perhaps the Arena Football rule: after the one-minute warning (translate that to two, obviously) in the 4th quarter, if the offense has the lead and doesn't gain yardage on a play, the clock stops.

That certainly explains how it could be done, but if we want to watch arena football, we could watch arena football.

[Dakota]

I don't officiate football, so this is from a fan's perspective (not a fan of either of these 2 teams, just in general a fan...).

A question was posed by Mike Golic, and I think it is a fair question. I am paraphrasing the situation/question.

If the offense gets to go into "victory" formation, and the defense is supposed to honor that to avoid injury, etc., why can't the defense do the same thing? For example, 5 seconds remain, defense is ahead by 7, offense has 4th and 20 from their own 25. The chances of any "hail Mary" pass play working is exceedingly slim. Why can't the defense go into its "victory" formation, inform the offense they are not going to rush the passer, and now the offense is obligated by "unwritten rule" to just quit?

Golic further made the point that the injury argument is hollow, since it was obvious when the defense lined up they are coming. If the offense chose to ignore that, and not line up to protect themselves and their QB, any injury was their own fault.