Excessive celebration-Pinstripe Bowl

[ajmc]

Wow, some of the unmitigated silliness offered on this subject is staggering. Every single player who is a member of a collegiate football team anywhere in the nation has been advised to avoid the showmanship nonsense celebrated by ESPN and other media outlets.

As has been know since time immemorial (or should have been) "If you can't do the time, DON'T DO THE CRIME". A player wants to gamble, places his own celebration ahead of his team and accepts the risks of his actions has to also accept the possible consequences of his actions. Whining and complaining about being punished, as you should have absolutely expected, just doesn't cut it.

Bad behavior by others should NEVER be considered an excuse, or license, to behave badly. Those of us who question another official's integrity, courage or ability should have some extremely hard evidence to back up their assumptions, or simply keep their mouths shut.

Of course if you've already worked your first perfect game, you can pontificate all you want, but until you do you might consider your own last assignment and how far you may have been from achieving perfection before polishing your halo.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Every single player who is a member of a collegiate football team anywhere in the nation has been advised to avoid the showmanship nonsense celebrated by ESPN and other media outlets.

As has been know since time immemorial (or should have been) "If you can't do the time, DON'T DO THE CRIME". A player wants to gamble, places his own celebration ahead of his team and accepts the risks of his actions has to also accept the possible consequences of his actions. Whining and complaining about being punished, as you should have absolutely expected, just doesn't cut it.

None of that justifies making a call that shouldn't be made.

[quote]Bad behavior by others should NEVER be considered an excuse, or license, to behave badly. Those of us who question another official's integrity, courage or ability should have some extremely hard evidence to back up their assumptions, or simply keep their mouths shut.

The evidence is listed in the bullet points that TXMike listed earlier in the thread. Had those bullet points but followed, the flag never would have been thrown.

Of course if you've already worked your first perfect game, you can pontificate all you want, but until you do you might consider your own last assignment and how far you may have been from achieving perfection before polishing your halo.

That's very weak. I guess it's supposed to make anyone who's ever questioned anything feel guilty. Doesn't work for me. None of us has worked a perfect game. That doesn't mean situations can't be discussed or mistakes pointed out. They can and will continue to be discussed.

As I've said from the get-go, the way the rules and guidelines are written, it puts the offiicals in position to be the bad guy and the scape goat.

Oh, and Geofrrey, I will continue to post on this an other boards without regard to your opinions your illusions that you can tell me to stop.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The evidence is listed in the bullet points that TXMike listed earlier in the thread. Had those bullet points but followed, the flag never would have been thrown.

What you meant to say was that in your opinion, what happened should not have been a foul.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

None of that justifies making a call that shouldn't be made.

An argument can't get any weaker than that. You can't cite your own opinion and act like it is a fact.

[BktBallRef]

Cobra, everyone who posts here is posting their opinion. No one has to type "in my opinion" every time they write something. Unless it's a direct reference, we're all offering what we think.

Geoffrey, I hadn't heard you're an alternate on a college staff. Congrats. We're all real impressed.

I haven't bullied anyone. You're then one telling me to stop posting. Again, I will continue to voice my opinion, whether it's about your precious Big Ten or anything else I choose.

Have a nice day, gentlemen.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Cobra, everyone who posts here is posting their opinion. No one has to type "in my opinion" every time they write something.

Geoffrey, I hadn't heard you're an alternate on a college staff. Congrats. We're all real impressed.

I haven't bullied anyone. You're then one telling me to stop posting. Again, I will continue to voice my opinion, whether it's about your precious Big Ten or anything else I choose.

Have a nice day, gentlemen.

Big Fat Tony,

You do not have to be impressed but I do know the conversations that go on with these kinds of calls. If you are simply a HS official that mentality is different you may not understand the process or the training that goes into these kinds of calls. It is like people who only work HS basketball comment on what is called at the college level in basketball but do not realize that the NCAA want more calls made on all kinds of things. This issue has been discussed so much in the past 2 or 3 years (remember the Washington-BYU game a few years ago). Again is it OK to disagree with the call, but to say it represents the Big Ten good or bad based on two completely different teams is silly. Only someone that knows little to nothing about college football officiating says that. You may know something, but that was just silly on the face of it considering how the assignments are made. This is not your local officiating association we are talking about here, these are guys all over the region to work games and they must follow something or there are guys in many D1 officials or guys in conferences like CCIW or many other small conferences that will take their place. For the record I have not real aspirations to work that level as I do not know if I can give up my basketball.

Yes, I do work college ball and it is not high school ball as it is not like working high school sports. Much more scrutiny and they will find someone else to work those games very quickly if you do what guys say on a discussion board. The only person that holds you accountable is your crew and you may go an entire season of high school ball and not hear a single person tell you to do something right or wrong in football. At the college level you might have an evaluator that tells you what is done and there is a game report sent after every game. Just a little different process.

Peace

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is like people who only work HS basketball comment on what is called at the college level in basketball but do not realize that the NCAA want more calls made on all kinds of things

If you want a good laugh check out this discussion. HS official who doesn't understand the NFL replay system but still feels the need to bash the NFL officials. Pittsburg/Miami Fumble

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Cobra

If you want a good laugh check out this discussion. HS official who doesn't understand the NFL replay system but still feels the need to bash the NFL officials. Pittsburg/Miami Fumble

I read it at the time. It was funny then and it is funny now. But then again when you have posted here for a long time you start to forget that there are others that know as much if not more than you do.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Cobra

An argument can't get any weaker than that. You can't cite your own opinion and act like it is a fact.

He does this all the time. Nothing new in this discussion.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Oh, and Geofrrey, I will continue to post on this an other boards without regard to your opinions your illusions that you can tell me to stop.

Unlike you I seem to really understand what this place is or is not. Which is why you can, will and are going to post whenever you like and I fully expect you to. But that also means that folks like me whether you respect it or not are going to also comment. And you can call what I say illusions, but I did not get to where I am as an official by making them very often (if ever). And unless you work college ball you have no idea what the thinking of those officials are and certainly not as an umpire.

Peace

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Cobra, everyone who posts here is posting their opinion. No one has to type "in my opinion" every time they write something. Unless it's a direct reference, we're all offering what we think.

Not really...you are making it sound like the official is disregarding the bullet points.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The evidence is listed in the bullet points that TXMike listed earlier in the thread. Had those bullet points but followed, the flag never would have been thrown.

You are saying that if the official had done it the way the memo instructs that a foul would not have been called.

These officials who called the foul are working a bowl game. I'm going to take a guess and say that they have read the memo as well as the rule book and know how to they are to judge these types of fouls. I'm sure that they went through the judgement process as they have been instructed to and simply judged the act to be a foul.

It is sad that you are saying that these officials are incompetent simply because you do not agree with their judgement.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Not really...you are making it sound like the official is disregarding the bullet points.

You are saying that if the official had done it the way the memo instructs that a foul would not have been called.

Whether he disregarded them, or just forgot them, in my opinion he didn't properly apply them. You disagree and that's fine.

These officials who called the foul are working a bowl game. I'm going to take a guess and say that they have read the memo as well as the rule book and know how to they are to judge these types of fouls. I'm sure that they went through the judgement process as they have been instructed to and simply judged the act to be a foul.

It is sad that you are saying that these officials are incompetent simply because you do not agree with their judgement.

Your words, not mine. I haven't said anyone is incompetent. If missing a call made an official incompetent, then we would all be incompetent.

As posters have decided to make this personal, I'm done with this thread.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Whether he disregarded them, or just forgot them, in my opinion he didn't properly apply them. You disagree and that's fine.



Your words, not mine. I haven't said anyone is incompetent. If missing a call made an official incompetent, then we would all be incompetent.

As posters have decided to make this personal, I'm done with this thread.

Hold on.

You just said that the official either "he disregarded them (the memo/bullet points), or just forgot them". Then you say that you are not saying that he is incompetent.

If an official is disregarding or forgetting how he has been instructed to do things, wouldn't that mean he is incompetent?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Hold on.

You just said that the official either "he disregarded them (the memo/bullet points), or just forgot them". Then you say that you are not saying that he is incompetent.

If an official is disregarding or forgetting how he has been instructed to do things, wouldn't that mean he is incompetent?

He will not admit that is what he is saying. He likes to be critical when it is convenient and then get mad at others for saying similar things about officials in other threads. Then he will claim you are full of it when he disagrees with you and you are giving an opinion just like he is.

And yes if you are ignoring or unaware of a directive from your bosses that is incompetence. What else could it be? Someone has to be incompetent based on the position he is taking. After all the entire conference is at fault remember.

Peace