Excessive celebration-Pinstripe Bowl

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Ah no, it doesn't and it's about much more than that. It's obviously reflects on Big Ten officiating. It reflects on the inconsistency between one crew and another, which reflects on their training.

The Music City Bowl referee studdering and stumbling through most of his penalty announcements and explanation reflected poorly as well. Perhaps he's a fine offical but his certainly wasn't the best face for the Big Ten. I've never seen a referee appear to be that nervous.

Will you stop it please!!!

For one there is a reason why certain officials get assigned certain games at all levels. You earn that right because you or your crew made the fewest mistakes in your evaluation system. Like it or not these are individuals on individual crews. What someone on another crew does is irrelevant in the bigger picture. I know many Big Ten officials and many Big Ten crew chiefs (as well as guys in the MAC and other Alliance conferences) and what they do is hard. And if they do not do what is asked of them they will not work and that includes Bowl games. What someone does in another game has nothing to do with what happens in your game. If the Big Ten does not like the call these guys will know. If there is inconsistency they will hear about it in their meetings and other correspondence. You can only control what you call in your game. You should know that being an official. I do not ever care what someone else does in their games because what I do will stand alone and be evaluated. And these rules have been talked about at the NCAA level extensively and I am sure in their conference. You can go on and on about how this reflects on the Big Ten but only uneducated people would think that. There are reasons that some guys make it in the Big Ten and others do not make it there. There are reasons that some guys go to Bowl games and others are sitting at home. Not to say that this was clearly the right call, but they will hear about it either way and based on some preliminary statements the higher ups liked the application. And at the NCAA, the coaches are the ones that write and create these rules. Officials are asked to enforce them and if they don't, they will find a few thousand people willing to take their spot and qualified to do their job, trust me on that one.


Peace

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by sloth

My job (as I see it) is to (1) insure player safety (2) insure integrity of the game is upheld (FS/shifts/motion/more than 11 players, etc) and (3) insure that one team does not gain an unfair advantage over another team during a play situation (holding and point of attack/DPI/OPI, etc).

I notice that "being unseen" is not part of the job as you see it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Will you stop it please!!!

No, I will not stop it. This is a forum and I'm allowed to express my opinion without worrying about whether you like it or not. Don't like it, don't read it.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

No, I will not stop it. This is a forum and I'm allowed to express my opinion without worrying about whether you like it or not. Don't like it, don't read it.

How is he supposed to know if he likes your opinion if he doesn't read it first? By the time he realizes he doesn't like it he has already read it. Your post really makes no sense at all.

[ajmc]

Wow, some of the unmitigated silliness offered on this subject is staggering. Every single player who is a member of a collegiate football team anywhere in the nation has been advised to avoid the showmanship nonsense celebrated by ESPN and other media outlets.

As has been know since time immemorial (or should have been) "If you can't do the time, DON'T DO THE CRIME". A player wants to gamble, places his own celebration ahead of his team and accepts the risks of his actions has to also accept the possible consequences of his actions. Whining and complaining about being punished, as you should have absolutely expected, just doesn't cut it.

Bad behavior by others should NEVER be considered an excuse, or license, to behave badly. Those of us who question another official's integrity, courage or ability should have some extremely hard evidence to back up their assumptions, or simply keep their mouths shut.

Of course if you've already worked your first perfect game, you can pontificate all you want, but until you do you might consider your own last assignment and how far you may have been from achieving perfection before polishing your halo.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

No, I will not stop it. This is a forum and I'm allowed to express my opinion without worrying about whether you like it or not. Don't like it, don't read it.

It is an expression relax!!! This is not the NF forum where you can dictate what I say.

You can express whatever opinion you like, but that does not mean it is based on knowledge or competence. Do you work any college football? Maybe if you did I would understand your position. You do not have to answer and I will read whatever I like and comment on whatever I like on this forum. You cannot ban me because I call you out here.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Every single player who is a member of a collegiate football team anywhere in the nation has been advised to avoid the showmanship nonsense celebrated by ESPN and other media outlets.

As has been know since time immemorial (or should have been) "If you can't do the time, DON'T DO THE CRIME". A player wants to gamble, places his own celebration ahead of his team and accepts the risks of his actions has to also accept the possible consequences of his actions. Whining and complaining about being punished, as you should have absolutely expected, just doesn't cut it.

None of that justifies making a call that shouldn't be made.

[quote]Bad behavior by others should NEVER be considered an excuse, or license, to behave badly. Those of us who question another official's integrity, courage or ability should have some extremely hard evidence to back up their assumptions, or simply keep their mouths shut.

The evidence is listed in the bullet points that TXMike listed earlier in the thread. Had those bullet points but followed, the flag never would have been thrown.

Of course if you've already worked your first perfect game, you can pontificate all you want, but until you do you might consider your own last assignment and how far you may have been from achieving perfection before polishing your halo.

That's very weak. I guess it's supposed to make anyone who's ever questioned anything feel guilty. Doesn't work for me. None of us has worked a perfect game. That doesn't mean situations can't be discussed or mistakes pointed out. They can and will continue to be discussed.

As I've said from the get-go, the way the rules and guidelines are written, it puts the offiicals in position to be the bad guy and the scape goat.

Oh, and Geofrrey, I will continue to post on this an other boards without regard to your opinions your illusions that you can tell me to stop.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Cobra

How is he supposed to know if he likes your opinion if he doesn't read it first? By the time he realizes he doesn't like it he has already read it. Your post really makes no sense at all.

Tony is a guy that thinks he can bully everyone that disagrees with him and name call when he is called to the carpet. This is no different. And I would expect a person of his stature to no better considering he is a State Final official two times and probably has had success because he does what is good for his career. But then again I do not know if he even works a single college football game or is on a staff. I am on an alternate on a college staff and I can tell you in every one of my games I do what is best for me and what fits the crew philosophy. I do not give a damn what some other official on the staff does or does not do. And I am sure that is what was going through the mind of the officials that made the call (two of them made this call BTW). So all their training and experience came into play and they are very aware of the tape and how they will be perceived if they do not call the foul by the evaluators. They could give a damn individually what the Big Ten is seen on a call that is in their game. That is the evaluator's job if they even care. And if he does not like my comments about what he says he cannot post them on a public forum so everyone can see them.

Peace

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The evidence is listed in the bullet points that TXMike listed earlier in the thread. Had those bullet points but followed, the flag never would have been thrown.

What you meant to say was that in your opinion, what happened should not have been a foul.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

None of that justifies making a call that shouldn't be made.

An argument can't get any weaker than that. You can't cite your own opinion and act like it is a fact.

[BktBallRef]

Cobra, everyone who posts here is posting their opinion. No one has to type "in my opinion" every time they write something. Unless it's a direct reference, we're all offering what we think.

Geoffrey, I hadn't heard you're an alternate on a college staff. Congrats. We're all real impressed.

I haven't bullied anyone. You're then one telling me to stop posting. Again, I will continue to voice my opinion, whether it's about your precious Big Ten or anything else I choose.

Have a nice day, gentlemen.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Oh, and Geofrrey, I will continue to post on this an other boards without regard to your opinions your illusions that you can tell me to stop.

Unlike you I seem to really understand what this place is or is not. Which is why you can, will and are going to post whenever you like and I fully expect you to. But that also means that folks like me whether you respect it or not are going to also comment. And you can call what I say illusions, but I did not get to where I am as an official by making them very often (if ever). And unless you work college ball you have no idea what the thinking of those officials are and certainly not as an umpire.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Cobra, everyone who posts here is posting their opinion. No one has to type "in my opinion" every time they write something.

Geoffrey, I hadn't heard you're an alternate on a college staff. Congrats. We're all real impressed.

I haven't bullied anyone. You're then one telling me to stop posting. Again, I will continue to voice my opinion, whether it's about your precious Big Ten or anything else I choose.

Have a nice day, gentlemen.

Big Fat Tony,

You do not have to be impressed but I do know the conversations that go on with these kinds of calls. If you are simply a HS official that mentality is different you may not understand the process or the training that goes into these kinds of calls. It is like people who only work HS basketball comment on what is called at the college level in basketball but do not realize that the NCAA want more calls made on all kinds of things. This issue has been discussed so much in the past 2 or 3 years (remember the Washington-BYU game a few years ago). Again is it OK to disagree with the call, but to say it represents the Big Ten good or bad based on two completely different teams is silly. Only someone that knows little to nothing about college football officiating says that. You may know something, but that was just silly on the face of it considering how the assignments are made. This is not your local officiating association we are talking about here, these are guys all over the region to work games and they must follow something or there are guys in many D1 officials or guys in conferences like CCIW or many other small conferences that will take their place. For the record I have not real aspirations to work that level as I do not know if I can give up my basketball.

Yes, I do work college ball and it is not high school ball as it is not like working high school sports. Much more scrutiny and they will find someone else to work those games very quickly if you do what guys say on a discussion board. The only person that holds you accountable is your crew and you may go an entire season of high school ball and not hear a single person tell you to do something right or wrong in football. At the college level you might have an evaluator that tells you what is done and there is a game report sent after every game. Just a little different process.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Cobra

An argument can't get any weaker than that. You can't cite your own opinion and act like it is a fact.

He does this all the time. Nothing new in this discussion.

Peace

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Cobra, everyone who posts here is posting their opinion. No one has to type "in my opinion" every time they write something. Unless it's a direct reference, we're all offering what we think.

Not really...you are making it sound like the official is disregarding the bullet points.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The evidence is listed in the bullet points that TXMike listed earlier in the thread. Had those bullet points but followed, the flag never would have been thrown.

You are saying that if the official had done it the way the memo instructs that a foul would not have been called.

These officials who called the foul are working a bowl game. I'm going to take a guess and say that they have read the memo as well as the rule book and know how to they are to judge these types of fouls. I'm sure that they went through the judgement process as they have been instructed to and simply judged the act to be a foul.

It is sad that you are saying that these officials are incompetent simply because you do not agree with their judgement.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is like people who only work HS basketball comment on what is called at the college level in basketball but do not realize that the NCAA want more calls made on all kinds of things

If you want a good laugh check out this discussion. HS official who doesn't understand the NFL replay system but still feels the need to bash the NFL officials. Pittsburg/Miami Fumble