Excessive celebration-Pinstripe Bowl

[ottobabble]

Allegedly, the calling official ran up to the player and said to him "Wrong choice buddy" and then flagged him. Sounds a lot like a "I gotcha!". Not very professional in my opinion.

I still do not understand why the "diamond" gesture, which was displayed a lot longer by the Syracuse player is not a foul but the brief salute is.

[JasonTX]

According to this article, Randy Edsall, head coach of Connecticut and chairman of the rules committee agrees the call was the correct. Officials have been instructed to be very strict. It was mentioned that each play will be reviewed as well as each official. Perhaps there will be some discipline to the other 3 calls that were apparently missed.

NCAA officials coordinator backs calls in Pinstripe, Music City Bowls - Campus Rivalry: College Football & Basketball News, Recruiting, Game Picks, and More - USATODAY.com

[rulesmaven]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Whether my expectations are realistic or not, there's no way you can justify a salute being flagged as USC in one game and in the very next game, on the same network, a crew from the same conference ignores the exact same act three times.

This.

Plus, I'd add that rules and their enforcement need to give players reasonable notice of what they can and can't do. Players watch sportscenter. They see what their opponent does. How can you have a situation where nobody knows what is legal and what is not?

The answer that one can just hand the ball to an official and run to the sideline and have nothing to worry about is not satisfying to me. If you want that to be the rule, fine. Make it the rule. It sure would help officials. But that's not the rule. So long as the rules allow for some spontaneous celebration, it's very hard to see how one can justify last night's call. If a rule is so ambiguous that even the same crew doesn't call it the same way every time, then you simply have to err on the side of not calling it unless it's something you feel confident most objective people would say, "ah, yes, that's what we want to stop."

[rulesmaven]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

According to this article, Randy Edsall, head coach of Connecticut and chairman of the rules committee agrees the call was the correct.

Well said by a man who still has a game to play this year and knows officials might be reading.

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by rulesmaven

This.

Plus, I'd add that rules and their enforcement need to give players reasonable notice of what they can and can't do. Players watch sportscenter. They see what their opponent does. How can you have a situation where nobody knows what is legal and what is not?

The answer that one can just hand the ball to an official and run to the sideline and have nothing to worry about is not satisfying to me. If you want that to be the rule, fine. Make it the rule. It sure would help officials. But that's not the rule. So long as the rules allow for some spontaneous celebration, it's very hard to see how one can justify last night's call. If a rule is so ambiguous that even the same crew doesn't call it the same way every time, then you simply have to err on the side of not calling it unless it's something you feel confident most objective people would say, "ah, yes, that's what we want to stop."

If you were a player and you've seen all the inconsistencies on all the sports replays and you weren't sure if you'd get flagged or not, why would you risk doing something that may or may not be flagged. When playing with fire, sometimes you get burned and sometimes you don't. My advice is to NEVER play with fire because you never know when it's your turn to get burned. Two officials judged the action to be a foul. Other officials may not agree it was a foul. 50/50 is just not an area, if I were a player, that I'd risk doing something to draw a flag. They can never give enough rule changes that could say that this act will be a foul 100% of the time and this act will never be a foul. It just don't work that way. It just another judgement call. Don't do something to force that official to use judgement. That should be enough of a deterant that all players will not risk doing anything. There is a very good chance we don't see any type of action following a score the rest of this year. If that turns out to be true, then mission accomplished with removing celebrations from the game, which is the mission of the rules committee.

[rulesmaven]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

There is a very good chance we don't see any type of action following a score the rest of this year.

Then all you've done is created a de facto rule that doesn't actually exist.

If that's the rule the rules committee wants, they should have the courage to enact it and accept the wrath of fans and boosters who want some spontaneous celebration in the game. Alternatively, aim for something more objective like the NFL has done. Either way, take the officials out of the cross-hairs. It seems pretty clear that trying to walk some ever-moving line just means everyone gets caught in the switches.

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by rulesmaven

Then all you've done is created a de facto rule that doesn't actually exist.

If that's the rule the rules committee wants, they should have the courage to enact it and accept the wrath of fans and boosters who want some spontaneous celebration in the game. Alternatively, aim for something more objective like the NFL has done. Either way, take the officials out of the cross-hairs. It seems pretty clear that trying to walk some ever-moving line just means everyone gets caught in the switches.

I don't like it personally myself, but I don't blame the officials either. Players need to remember all the inconsistencies with how these are officiated and just don't do anything that may or may not draw a flag. Hand the ball to the official and go to the huddle or team area is the best thing a player can do as we have seen in past few years. Every year there is always one game that draws some attention to one of these types of calls. Players should know by now that it could happen to them.

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by rulesmaven

Well said by a man who still has a game to play this year and knows officials might be reading.

Very true. We'll see how supportive he is if his player gets flagged for the same action.

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

Very true. We'll see how supportive he is if his player gets flagged for the same action.

Uhhhhh UCONN is playing Oklahoma right? May not have to worry about any celebration penalties by UCONN

[JRutledge]

I work enough football games at the high school level and I never see these antics. If you hand the official the ball and celebrate with a teammate, then you will not have to worry about what is called on you.

Also this has been addressed so many times which is why there is going to be a rule next year to flag celebrating before they get to the end zone. It is really simple. Do not do this stuff and you will not have to worry about it.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

According to this article, Randy Edsall, head coach of Connecticut and chairman of the rules committee agrees the call was the correct. Officials have been instructed to be very strict. It was mentioned that each play will be reviewed as well as each official. Perhaps there will be some discipline to the other 3 calls that were apparently missed.

NCAA officials coordinator backs calls in Pinstripe, Music City Bowls - Campus Rivalry: College Football & Basketball News, Recruiting, Game Picks, and More - USATODAY.com

We already know the throat slash in the UNC-UT game should have been flagged as 9-2-1a specifically addresses it.

I wonder what Parry and Edsall think of the three salutes and belt buckle that were not called in that game.

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by sloth

First of all, the Big 10 bashing shows ignorance at it's finest. This is about individual officials making a judgement call in an area of the game that is very subjective. I'm not passing judgement on this call, but I will say this...in a situtaion like this I'm thinking about the pluses and minuses about throwing that flag. If the crew overlooks this fould, no one one notices. SportsCenter isn't running stories about how the officials blew a celebration foul and this thread wouldn't exist. The fact that we are talking about this, makes me think that it should have been passed on. We need to strive to be unseen and un-noticed in our craft...now sometimes thats imposible...but I think on a minor celebration foul late in a game...we have to really think about how we are going to handle this....espically with the enforcment changes for 2011.

I think this situation can lead to a lot of discussion in the off-season with the changes I mentioned to USC's being live ball fouls in 2011.

I wouldn't have made the call myself but I also don't think about how Sportscenter or other officials will perceive my call either before I make it. Every year we have one of these calls that gets all the attention and that has been pretty consistent each year.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by sloth

If the crew overlooks this fould, no one one notices. SportsCenter isn't running stories about how the officials blew a celebration foul and this thread wouldn't exist. The fact that we are talking about this, makes me think that it should have been passed on.

People complain about things which are not called as fouls all the time. Officials get calls 100% correct and ESPN runs stories saying they are wrong. Your logic doesn't make any sense.

Originally Posted by sloth

We need to strive to be unseen and un-noticed in our craft

I don't know why people say thing all the time; it is just some stupid statement that you are likely to hear from some sportscaster. How about striving to officiate the game properly? That may mean making a big call at the end of the game which focuses attention on yourself.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by sloth

First of all, the Big 10 bashing shows ignorance at it's finest. This is about individual officials making a judgement call in an area of the game that is very subjective.

Ah no, it doesn't and it's about much more than that. It's obviously reflects on Big Ten officiating. It reflects on the inconsistency between one crew and another, which reflects on their training.

The Music City Bowl referee studdering and stumbling through most of his penalty announcements and explanation reflected poorly as well. Perhaps he's a fine offical but his certainly wasn't the best face for the Big Ten. I've never seen a referee appear to be that nervous.

[HLin NC]

The Music City Bowl referee studdering and stumbling through most of his penalty announcements and explanation reflected poorly as well. Perhaps he's a fine offical but his certainly wasn't the best face for the Big Ten. I've never seen a referee appear to be that nervous.
__________________

I noted the same. Like it or not, as these conferences push hard for the big TV dollars, that is a small thing they are going to have to keep in mind. I don't expect Ed Hochuli type mic work but that guy seemed as if he had just moved to R before the bowl from another position.

As one my old hoops coaches used to say, "He's got no rap."