Excessive celebration-Pinstripe Bowl

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The point is that you don't call something with a 1 minute to go in the last game of the season that hasn't been called all season no matter how long it has been in the book. The time to establish a new level of enforcement is the first game of the season.

So you know what these guys have or have not called all season? You know what has or has not been called by others? I have seen these penalties this season. I am not going to say I know for sure what has been called in every game or in every conference game, but I have seen this called this year. So to say one or two officials (in this case) are supposed to not call a blatant violation of the rules does not make sense to me at all. Again the rules are very clear. And this is why there are POEs in all kinds of sports to have officials enforce the rules because of attitudes like this.

I know I had called this personally in a high school game and a player was warned. I did so in the playoffs and did not once think about what happened during the rest of the season or knew what others had called. I think your expectation is unrealistic if we must know what everyone has done. It is possible that a crew in any conference is not totally aware of what others have specifically called unless there is something on the video each week to review.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So you know what these guys have or have not called all season? You know what has or has not been called by others? I have seen these penalties this season.

I've watched several games a week...every week. I've not seen one case of such a minor gesture called...and have seen much larger gestures also go uncalled. Sure it may have been called somewhere, sometime, but that doesn't make it the norm or consistent with what has been getting called.

What I have see is officials say something to the player...a warning.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I agree with everything you are saying but think the supervisor or advisers also are the people that matter. These officials will have to answer to who hires them as to why this was or was not a good call and if they are OK with it, it really does not matter what we say here.

Peace

We all answer to someone, and longevity often depends on how well you handle that "answering" process. I suspect there are very different levels of answerability at different levels and different areas of the country. Perhaps the best, or at least safest, advice would be, "When in Rome....."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I've watched several games a week...every week. I've not seen one case of such a minor gesture called...and have seen much larger gestures also go uncalled. Sure it may have been called somewhere, sometime, but that doesn't make it the norm or consistent with what has been getting called.

What I have see is officials say something to the player...a warning.

Not only did I see penalties for this year at that level, I have seen them for some years now when this directive was first made. I would not call it the norm as many players are not doing those things and next year they better get ready to have TDs taken away.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajmc

We all answer to someone, and longevity often depends on how well you handle that "answering" process. I suspect there are very different levels of answerability at different levels and different areas of the country. Perhaps the best, or at least safest, advice would be, "When in Rome....."

I agree and that level has a higher level of accountability.

Peace

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not only did I see penalties for this year at that level, I have seen them for some years now when this directive was first made. I would not call it the norm as many players are not doing those things and next year they better get ready to have TDs taken away.

Peace

TD taken away only if the foul occurs during a live ball. You may realize this but your comment may lead others to believe dead ball fouls will take away a TD as well and that's not the case. I've heard too many talking headst his week perpetuate this myth.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

TD taken away only if the foul occurs during a live ball. You may realize this but your comment may lead others to believe dead ball fouls will take away a TD as well and that's not the case. I've heard too many talking headst his week perpetuate this myth.

I was just pointing out a change is a comin', whether folks realize it is a live or dead ball is not a big issue to me when the rule is not here yet. They will see next year the impact of what the committee thinks of these actions (all coaches and administrators I might add). The committee just gave coaches a year to prepare and these situations and to warn or coach their players properly.

Peace

[TXMike]

There is very very rarely a situation where the new rule would even have an impact. Players are generally waiting until they get to the end zone to start their displays nowadays. And even the "dives" which are flagged will be enforced as dead ball fouls next year although they start at the 5 yard line sometimes.

[Robert Goodman]

What was the problem this rule was formulated to address, and why was it considered a problem?

The whole business about calling att'n to oneself is silly. The game either has spectators or it doesn't. (I'm used to games that hardly anyone watches -- often not even the substitute players.) If it does, guess what?

The whole damn game is about people calling att'n!
Hey, look over here, there's a buncha people running around and doing funny stuff that you wouldn't do in polite company! Seriously, could any of these demonstrations that participants do between downs be any more offensive in appearance than football itself?

If there was a problem with taunting that started fights, that justified a rule. But somehow the problem of taunting slid over into demonstrations of emotion of any kind. Could it be that people were seen to take offense at more and more innocent demonstrations? Is this an example of the heckler's veto?

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by sloth

So were we wrong for passing on this flag? If we decided to make an issue of this and inject ourselves into the game I believe the last few minutes would have been absolute hell to officiate. By the book we had every right to flag this...yet I believe we handled it correctly. I can tell you that the game time, situation and potential effect on the game was a major factor for my passing on this flag.

Sounds a lot like you rendered a judgment on the situation and circumstances you were confronted with INSIDE THE PARTICULAR GAME YOU WERE WORKING. You appear comfortable with YOUR decision and the way it turned out, congratulations.

I doubt you paused, for any great length of time, and carefully pondered all the possible ramifications of the multiple choices at your disposal. It's more likely you make an immediate, instinctive judgment based on your knowledge of the rules, the tone of that game and your personal assessment of that situation, all in the space of a wink of an eye.

Of all the people on this planet, only YOU got to make that judgment because YOU were working that game and YOU happened to be the covering official. Thankfully, you're still pleased with your call, because the only person who really has to be pleased with the call is YOU.

Can't you give the Pinstripe crew the same consideration?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Of all the people on this planet, only YOU got to make that judgment because YOU were working that game and YOU happened to be the covering official. Thankfully, you're still pleased with your call, because the only person who really has to be pleased with the call is YOU.

Can't you give the Pinstripe crew the same consideration?

At the end of the day that is all we have as officials. I am sure all of us have made calls and hardly thought of the situation of the game. I know I have been in games where a call was obvious and at a critical moment. One of the big things about being a official is your courage level, which is why some will work the big game (on TV or in the playoffs) and others will only see regular season games or games that have no major significance.

Peace