NF: Celebration?

[DJ_NV]

Last Friday, varsity game between 2 undefeated teams. Score is 17-17 with :25 left in the game. 3/10 for the home team is at the B-25 yard line. They line up for a FG and are called for a false start. We back them up 5 and they decide to run a normal play, go for it all and if they lose, they go to OT.

I'm the BJ in the EZ, my key runs a nice post pattern, QB sees him and puts it right on the numbers in the EZ for the go-ahead 6. Clock stops with :01. As the receiver is heading back to the team box after the TD but before the Try, the rest of the team (not that it matters but there is only about 25 players on the team) is obviously excited and congratulating the player on the field back at the 20-25 yard line. They're only about 1-2 yards onto the field, and they quickly all filter back into the team box. Meanwhile, we're getting into position for the Try and everything goes back to normal and the 11 players come out for the Try, kick is good, and we have the KO. Visiting team is downed, game over--home team wins.

After the TD and before the Try, the visiting team is screaming for a UC because several of their players are out on the field (again, 1-2 yards in front of their team box and maybe a few yards past the 25). Nothing insulting or directed at the other team, just pure excitement.

Would you flag this for excessive celebration or being outside the team box?

we did not have a flag, and I even heard the visiting assistant coach tell the HC that had they scored, we would've let them do the same thing. The HC wasn't buying it, and he kept yelling at us all the way up to right before the KO then he let it go.

thoughts?

[FootballRef05]

As you described it, that is not drawing my flag. I think calling the USC is nit picking and asking for a whole lot of trouble. Now on the other hand if the entire bench cleared and was out in the middle of the field and delayed the PAt I think you have another story.

[Sonofanump]

I would not have flagged it, if anything you would have a sideline warning.

[DJ_NV]

what if they had been almost to the 9-yard marks and/or down around the 20 and were just out to greet the player and then went back into the team box. Still no flag?

[FootballRef05]

Not from me

[Bob M.]

REPLY: No flag from me the way you describe it. Don't go looking for trouble.

[JRutledge]

Use common sense. Do you expect players not to celebrate? As long as the players did not come down to the EZ from the team box, I do not see why this is a problem. You have to expect some spontaneous celebration in these kinds of situations. Let the team have some fun.

Peace

[DJ_NV]

that's what we all felt. I just couldn't understand why the visiting coach just wouldn't leave it alone other than being a sore loser. I suppose that's par for the course, but shame on me for trying to give him the benefit of the doubt

[bisonlj]

What do you do if the same thing happens while the play is still going on? I had that in a game earlier this year when the home team was up by 3 and the visiting team was driving in the 4th quarter. The defense made a great hit on the quarterback knocking the ball lose and a defensive player picked up the ball running the other way. He returned it about 30 yards and was tackled at the other team's 40 yard line. When I started to follow the run the other way I noticed the head coach was running out near the numbers (excited about his team getting the turnover). I was considering flagging him for that when I was suddenly hit from the side by one of the assistant coaches (I'm near the sideline but not too far on to the field). I'm nearly knocked down but I'm able to catch myself. As I'm getting my flag to throw it, I end up twisting my ankle and fall on the ground. I have now completely missed the end of the play and have no idea where the ball should be spotted (my R got the spot).

The HC was furious. He told me I had just ruined a great play by his team (his team still retained possession so it didn't impact the play that much). He also asked me when I became so important. I let it go because I had already explained why I had thrown the flag. I was just letting him vent. A few minutes later I heard him telling his players to stay back and the coaches to stay away from me because I apparently owned that part of the field. He ended up running out the last 5 minutes of the game (save a few seconds) and scored to give his team a 10 point win. It was his first win as a head coach after losing the first four games.

I should note the sideline had been an issue all night with coaches standing a yard on the field during several plays (they claimed it was because their sideline dropped into a pit and they would sprain their ankles if they stood there). Per request from my R I did not throw any warning flags and just tried to talk to the coaches. I learned my lesson. If they don't listen to polite requests, you need to throw the warning flag because that may be the only way to get their attention.

So after a long explanation, do you sometimes ignore coaches who end up cheering on the field during a big play like that?

[FootballRef05]

IMO if I had a coach out to the numbers during a play I would have, without hesitation toss a flag, even faster if I ran into a coach. Then I would have tossed another one for USC for his comments and behavior following the first flag.

Now to your point, you should have used the side line warning earlier in the game. The coaches have no right to be on the field in YOUR little bit of space. Hit them with the warning early and then the 15 yards if it presists. This is just another example of giving them an inch and they will take a mile. The rule is there to help you officiate the game and to help keep you safe. If he has a problem with the field he can take it up with game management and it can be noted in the game report. He is no business out on the field.

[DJ_NV]

In NF, there's really no penalty for being out on the field that's not a non-player, or succeeding spot foul, other than 9-9-1 in the Unfair Acts, and I hesitate to even bring that up because there is a specific rule, 9-8-1-i and 9-8-3 that covers it ant 9-9-1 is for events that have no specific rule coverage.
So even though a coach kept you from properly officiating the play, all you can have is a 15-yard succeeding spot UC. And while I certainly don't like punishing the players for an egregious act on the coach's part, succeeding spot fouls sometimes just don't have enough 'punch' so to speak to have a deterring effect.

Now having said that, the penalty for 9-8 fouls (including this one) states that if any foul is flagrant, DQ is an option. Do you DQ a coach for being inside the numbers during play? That's pretty flagrant--and dangerous--but do you toss him? By rule, you can--but would you?

[FootballRef05]

Thats a good question, DQ on the coach, that's a tough one. I guess if he knocked me down I would toss him Seriously, I think it would depend on being envolved in the entire situation, with all that was described I would have to say I would probably give a DQ a serious thought.

[voiceoflg]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

He also asked me when I became so important.

That should make the list of stupidest comments made by a coach.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

When I started to follow the run the other way I noticed the head coach was running out near the numbers (excited about his team getting the turnover).

Probably would have flagged this.

I was considering flagging him for that when I was suddenly hit from the side by one of the assistant coaches (I'm near the sideline but not too far on to the field). I'm nearly knocked down but I'm able to catch myself. As I'm getting my flag to throw it, I end up twisting my ankle and fall on the ground. I have now completely missed the end of the play and have no idea where the ball should be spotted (my R got the spot).

I'm 200% sure I would have thrown the flag at this point.

He told me I had just ruined a great play by his team (his team still retained possession so it didn't impact the play that much).

"No, sir, your coach did when he decided to participate in the play."

He also asked me when I became so important.

"When they decided it was prudent to hire officials to officiate your games. That's enough coach."

A few minutes later I heard him telling his players to stay back and the coaches to stay away from me because I apparently owned that part of the field.

And there's 15 more.

I should note the sideline had been an issue all night with coaches standing a yard on the field during several plays (they claimed it was because their sideline dropped into a pit and they would sprain their ankles if they stood there).

Perhaps an early SW would have avoided the situation you had to deal with later.

Per request from my R I did not throw any warning flags and just tried to talk to the coaches.

Horrible advice. No R worth his salt would have suggested this.

If they don't listen to polite requests, you need to throw the warning flag because that may be the only way to get their attention.

So very true.

So after a long explanation, do you sometimes ignore coaches who end up cheering on the field during a big play like that?

Sometimes, if this was the first incident ... although out near the numbers is hard to ignore. Once the coaches creep onto the field, the players creep into the working area. Nip it in the bud when it doesn't cost them anything.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by DJ_NV

In NF, there's really no penalty for being out on the field that's not a non-player, or succeeding spot foul, other than 9-9-1 in the Unfair Acts, and I hesitate to even bring that up because there is a specific rule, 9-8-1-i and 9-8-3 that covers it ant 9-9-1 is for events that have no specific rule coverage.
So even though a coach kept you from properly officiating the play, all you can have is a 15-yard succeeding spot UC. And while I certainly don't like punishing the players for an egregious act on the coach's part, succeeding spot fouls sometimes just don't have enough 'punch' so to speak to have a deterring effect.

Now having said that, the penalty for 9-8 fouls (including this one) states that if any foul is flagrant, DQ is an option. Do you DQ a coach for being inside the numbers during play? That's pretty flagrant--and dangerous--but do you toss him? By rule, you can--but would you?

Fed doesn't have a sideline warning for exactly this?