Trick play, middle school. Your take...

[Canned Heat]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

It's not just that. You have to do some research to find out the rules a particular youth game is played by. I'm still learning some of the rules we have to go by when we're up by 18+ points!

You are required to be WIAA/NFHS licensed here in WI for the youth league we work. As RG points out, in the AAYFL here in WI, if a team is down by 17 or more points, and scores...they have the option of having the team with the lead kick-off to them again. My crew worked the WI League Championship last weekend...score was 22-3 at half. Team that won toss and chose to receive to start the game, got it again on the second half KO, because of the point differential...kind of a bogus rule during a game of that nature IMO....but rules are rules. 9 point game by the end.

[JasonTX]

Under Fed rules, what position is the player receiving the snap in? Lineman, back, or neither? By NCAA rules: One player may be between his scrimmage line and the backs if in a position to receive a hand-to-hand snap from between the snapper’s legs. When in such position, that player may receive the snap himself or it may go directly to any player legally a back [S19].

The problem with this play for NCAA is that the ball did not go between the snappers legs.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

Under Fed rules, what position is the player receiving the snap in? Lineman, back, or neither? By NCAA rules: One player may be between his scrimmage line and the backs if in a position to receive a hand-to-hand snap from between the snapper’s legs. When in such position, that player may receive the snap himself or it may go directly to any player legally a back [S19].

The problem with this play for NCAA is that the ball did not go between the snappers legs.

The rule in NFHS is identical. I suppose rules lawyers could argue the point of whether the QB actually has to receive the snap there or can just start there and then move his hands in order to receive some other sort of snap such as up by the snapper's shoulder area since the rule is not specific enough for this ridiculous situation.

[BuckeyeRef]

Originally Posted by SamG

Since the refs didn't flag it, why would news stations, websites, etc think the play is illegal? If I didn't hang out on this board, I wouldn't have known. Blame your brothers in stripes, NOT those showing the video.

I know that is what I have told at least two dozen people since this play was seen. I tell them all it was illegal and should have been blown dead. I have told two junior high coaches and both of them said they had thought about trying to run this play next year. Every year one crew lets a play like this stand and all of us have to break the bad news to the 100 copycats.

[Texas Aggie]

Under NFHS rules, the ball must leave the snapper's hand immediately.

The game was not played under NFHS rules.

[Texas Aggie]

So, I'd like TA to explain exactly how you have a quick and continuous motion and the ball leaving the hand in that motion unless it fairly immediately leaves the hand.

And I'd like you to show how what I said was incorrect. The NFHS rules doesn't say "fairly immediately," and the NCAA rules doesn't use either term.

There are legal snaps where the ball does not leave the hand until the arm is well underway with its motion in a front to back (or at an angle) way. I would NOT call that immediate.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

The game was not played under NFHS rules.

When I post, I post regarding NFHS rules. I don't waste time researching where a clip came from.

Under NFHS rules, the play is illegal and the snap is illegal.

[JasonTX]

From another board, it was pointed out that the QB's head is breaking the waistline of the snapper. That makes the QB a lineman. Linemen cannot receive the snap in NCAA.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

And I'd like you to show how what I said was incorrect. The NFHS rules doesn't say "fairly immediately," and the NCAA rules doesn't use either term.

There are legal snaps where the ball does not leave the hand until the arm is well underway with its motion in a front to back (or at an angle) way. I would NOT call that immediate.

Apparently, according to a post on another board, a certain Dotson Lewis disagrees with you. Mr Lewis is supposedly someone of officiating renown in your home state. Maybe you should argue it with him.

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Apparently, according to a post on another board, a certain Dotson Lewis disagrees with you. Mr Lewis is supposedly someone of officiating renown in your home state. Maybe you should argue it with him.

For those that don't know, Mr. Lewis is also the training cooridator for the chapter in which those officials are from who allowed this play to take place without a flag. I am sure they know the proper rules by now. Way before my time, but Dotson was one of the ones who signed the Declaration of Independence. Well, maybe not that long ago, but he has been around Texas football for well over 50 years and he is still officiating on a high school crew. He is one of the ones who created our state association.

[jaybird]

Shut it down for a minimum of a snap infraction or flag them for unsportsmanlike conduct for using verbiage or actions to deceive the opponent by making them believe the snap is not imminent.

Another take would be a foul for illegal formation, illegal shift or illegal motion on the quarterback for his movements prior to taking the held ball from the snapper.

The simplest is the snap infraction as this fiasco does not meet the definition of a legal snap.

"Hey coach. Just teach your team to play football instead of wasting time teaching them to be dishonest."

[With_Two_Flakes]

Heck, I'm British and even I know exactly who Dotson Lewis is and I'm 5,045 miles away as the crow flies.

It'd be like not knowing who Nelson, Adams, Shirley, Sprenger, Parry or Redding were..........

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by With_Two_Flakes

Heck, I'm British and even I know exactly who Dotson Lewis is and I'm 5,045 miles away as the crow flies.

That's one helluva a crow!

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

Under Fed rules, what position is the player receiving the snap in? Lineman, back, or neither? By NCAA rules: One player may be between his scrimmage line and the backs if in a position to receive a hand-to-hand snap from between the snapper’s legs. When in such position, that player may receive the snap himself or it may go directly to any player legally a back [S19].

The problem with this play for NCAA is that the ball did not go between the snappers legs.

Who said the ball has to go between the snapper's legs, just because there's a player there taking advantage of the positioning rule? It says he may receive the snap himself, not that he has to take it from between the legs.

[TXMike]

I think what he means is that when the QB is up in the line like he was here he needs to be in position to receive a hand to hand snap between the snapper's legs. If he is not, he will either be a lineman or a mugwomp. In this case he appeared to be just to the left of the snapper and up so close that by definition he was a lineman.

He knows all snaps do not have to be between the legs as we routinely see it done differently on swinging gate plays